Evidence of meeting #122 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was parks.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Landon Shepherd  Wildfire Incident Commander, Jasper National Park , Parks Canada Agency
Andrew Campbell  Senior Vice-President, Operations, Parks Canada Agency

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Good afternoon, everyone.

I don't think it's really necessary to read the whole procedure on how to avoid acoustic incidents.

As you know, you must maintain a certain distance between the microphone and you, and avoid touching the microphone. If you chose not to use your earpiece, please place it on the sticker in front of you.

It's our pleasure to once again welcome the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, who will tell us about the factors leading to recent fires in Jasper National Park.

It's nice to have you here again, Minister. We're listening; the floor is yours.

5:20 p.m.

Laurier—Sainte-Marie Québec

Liberal

Steven Guilbeault LiberalMinister of Environment and Climate Change

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am always happy to come before the committee.

I'm accompanied today by Andrew Campbell, senior vice-president, operations, Parks Canada. I am also accompanied by Landon Shepherd, one of the expert firefighters at Parks Canada, whom I've already had the pleasure of meeting. If you have any more specific questions on the subject, I invite you to put them to him, he's really the expert in the room, and even in the country.

Thank you for inviting me here today to discuss this important bill, Bill C-76, An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act.

Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that I stand on the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Last week, I brought forth a unanimous consent motion to expedite Bill C-76, and I want to thank all parties and members for their support.

In the evening of July 22 of this year, a lightning storm sparked four wildfires near the Jasper townsite. By 10 p.m., an evacuation order had been issued for Jasper National Park. In just a few hours, more than 20,000 people had been safely evacuated without any casualties. As fires merged, a wall of fire nearly 300 metres high set across the southern valley in which the town of Jasper is found, projecting fiery pine cones and snapping treetops and branches up to a kilometre ahead of the fire.

Firefighters from Parks Canada, Jasper, Alberta Wildfire and dozens of towns across the country fought heroically to save homes, schools, the hospital. But there was no stopping this fire and no forest was going to escape its path.

Through heroic efforts, the men and women who fought this unprecedented wildfire successfully protected 70% of the Jasper townsite, on top of all the lives saved.

I would like to pause for a moment and thank Mr. Shepherd and all of his colleagues at Parks Canada, as well as the firefighting forces from the city of Jasper, the province of Alberta and other towns across the country who made this possible. I cannot thank them enough. The courage and application of the collective efforts deployed in the first hours and days of the wildfire saved lives and the majority of the community.

We remember especially the loss of Morgan Kitchen, the Alberta Wildfire crew member who died in early August while fighting that fire. It is a sobering reminder of the risks our first responders face every day in their dedication to protecting the safety, lives and property of others. Only through the efforts of Morgan and hundreds of others like him was any further loss of life prevented.

This fire has had profound impacts on the lives of so many people, impacts that are all too familiar to thousands of others in a growing number of communities that have been affected by wildfire in this country.

Buildings and critical town infrastructure have been damaged, and people’s lives and their businesses have been upended. A full recovery for the community will take time, and Parks Canada is already collaborating with the Municipality of Jasper to streamline processes and facilitate a sustainable Jasper of the future.

Bill C-76 is part of helping the reconstruction of a sustainable Jasper community.

I would like to take a moment to recognize the collaborative efforts, ongoing for decades, to prepare and mitigate the risks of wildfire in Jasper and elsewhere in the country.

Parks Canada, the Municipality of Jasper and indigenous partners have worked together for almost 30 years to reduce known wildfire risks in Jasper National Park and around the town, making it one of the most fire-prepared and resilient communities in Canada.

Parks Canada has used prescribed fires for four decades, including 15 in the last 10 years at Jasper National Park, to reduce the risk of wildfire to national park communities and to enhance ecosystem functioning. Millions of dollars have been invested in the battle against pine beetles, removing fuel sources from built areas and establishing a fire break around the townsite.

FireSmart Canada's best practices have been implemented in Jasper National Park, and in fact they have been largely inspired by the work that has been developed in Jasper.

The Government of Canada has invested in Jasper National Park for wildfire risk reduction activities, such as vegetation management to reduce wildfire risks to people, infrastructure and assets. The total area treated in Jasper National Park since 2014 is approximately 1,700 hectares. However devastating the fire was, Parks Canada's response and preparedness ensured that it was not much worse.

The government recognizes the situation on the ground in Jasper and our thoughts are with all those affected by the wildfire and to the family of firefighter Morgan Kitchen. Hundreds of individuals, families and businesses have been forced to cope with being evacuated, the loss of their property, streams of income and for many, their employment.

We are working hard to ensure that all of those affected receive the services and benefits to which they are entitled. We're seeking to ensure barriers to the sustainable reconstruction of the Jasper community are removed.

As part of this effort, we are seeking to update the Canada National Parks Act to enable the transfer of land use planning and development authorities from Parks Canada to the Municipality of Jasper. This change to the legislation will help facilitate streamlined decision-making where locally elected officials are empowered to make decisions regarding the reconstruction of their community.

Parks Canada remains a committed partner in reconstruction. Parks Canada and the Municipality of Jasper have a strong working relationship that was demonstrated time and again.

A unified command structure with the Municipality of Jasper was established on the first full day of the fire. This unified command has continued through re-entry and will remain in place through recovery and rebuilding. By working together, results are being achieved.

Residents were able to return to Jasper within a month of the evacuation. Roadways, the Miette Hot Springs, and the Columbia Icefield were open within days of the fire in the town. Travellers are once again able to visit Jasper, and their presence is vital for the many tourism industries that cater to this clientele.

As the Municipality of Jasper works to recover and rebuild, adoption of Bill C-76 will that ensure our government is supporting Jasperites. With the current streamlining work being done, and by implementing the right legislative authorities, local knowledge and local skills will be the leaders in addressing the needs of reconstruction in the communities.

Thank you.

I look forward to answering your questions.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Thank you, Minister.

In passing, I'd like to welcome Mr. Soroka, Mr. Calkins and Mr. Lloyd, who are joining us this afternoon. I'm told we're starting with Mr. Soroka.

Mr. Soroka for six minutes.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, this meeting is about the events that led to the fire. With nearly $1 billion in damage, one-third of Jasper destroyed, 800 housing units gone—leaving 2,000 residents homeless out of a population of 5,000—and businesses reduced to ashes, upending lives and livelihoods, yes or no: Does the government accept responsibility for the failure to protect the people and the town of Jasper?

Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Thank you for the question.

To give you an idea of what's been done in recent years, for comparison's sake, let's look at the investments made in the final year that Stephen Harper's Conservative Party was in power. In 2014‑15, $2 million was invested in forest fire prevention. In 2022‑23, we invested $4.4 million in forest fire prevention alone, twice as much as the previous government. But we didn't stop there. Since 2020, $6.9 million has been invested—

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Minister, if I ask a 30-second question—

A voice

—you have to get a 30-second answer.

Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Okay.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

No, we don't operate that way.

I know some committees do that, but we're a little more freewheeling. It makes for a better debate.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Well, if it's freewheeling, I won't be able to get an answer.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Anyway, go ahead, Minister.

Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

I have two pieces of information to share. Since 2020, we've spent $6.9 million to tackle infestations and remove dead wood, and $79 million has been invested since 2023—

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Minister, I have many other questions.

Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

That amount is about 30 times greater than what the previous government invested—

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I'm going back to Mr. Soroka.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

This is my next question. You have been quoted as saying, “Years of preparation, forest management,...paid off”; yet a third of the town is gone. There are billions of dollars in devastation, and 2,000 people are now homeless. You're telling me this preparation was paying off.

Minister, if this was an example of preparation and success, what does failure look like?

Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

If we hadn't done all that work to create the buffer zone around the town, the repercussions would have been far more significant. When I say “we”, I'm talking about Parks Canada, the Municipality of Jasper, the Alberta government and Indigenous peoples.

It's important to understand that Jasper is one of the best equipped towns to deal with this. I know it's hard for the Conservative Party to admit it, but we're facing extreme weather events that we've never seen before, whether it's forest fires, floods or tropical storms—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

You have to keep your answers shorter, because all of my questions are shorter today.

Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

The chair will tell me when it's time to stop speaking.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Go ahead, Mr. Soroka.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

I'll start off with this.

You're saying that FireSmart is a national program inspired by Jasper, and this is what you've said: “What we do around the country to protect towns and cities...was inspired largely by what we've been doing in Jasper fore all these years.”

I have to ask, if Jasper is the model for towns in proximity to forests, should we expect that a third of a town burns to the ground? Is this the new national standard—that a third of a town burns and you consider it a success? Is that your new plan?

Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Indeed, the FireSmart emergency management program is used by municipalities across the country. What we need to do is recognize that we're facing natural disasters, the likes of which we've never seen before. We can think of atmospheric rivers on the west coast, for example, heat waves and floods in eastern Canada.

We're going to have to do more. I completely agree on that point. We're going to have to do more to better protect our cities, especially near forests, which could be affected by forest fires. The FireSmart emergency management program is used across the country. We will continue to work on improving it.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

When was your government first warned about the reality of a catastrophic fire in Jasper?

Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

I can turn to Mr. Shepherd.

Landon, you were there on the ground. I could turn to you in terms of the sequence of events.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

When was the specific date of when Jasper “would” burn, not if it “could” burn? You knew that there was a lot of fuel and everything and that there was a high potential of fires. When did you guys know this?