Environment Committee on Sept. 25th, 2024

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

We're doing a lot. In fact, I don't think you could find a time in our history when so many different measures have been deployed to protect the environment, to fight for climate change and to increase conservation in this country.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Certainly there have been lots of announcements.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

We'll go now to Mr. Calkins.

Welcome to the committee.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Minister, you were asked earlier a very specific question by my colleague Mr. Soroka about when you were first briefed about the gravity of the situation, of the potential for a catastrophic fire in Jasper National Park, including the Jasper townsite.

When?

I want a date, Minister. This is something that would stick in the memory of somebody. If you were about to lose a heritage site park, you would know when you had that conversation. When were you briefed?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I started by getting briefing notes. As I said earlier, I spoke to the mayor of the town even before the situation deteriorated in Jasper. I don't have the dates in front of me, but they can certainly be provided. I don't have my calendar in front of me, but I started talking to the Parks Canada people even before the evacuation. As I was saying earlier...

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

After you had that meeting with the mayor, and after you had those conversations, did you direct your staff at Parks Canada to accelerate their fire preparedness for Jasper, yes or no?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I don't know how you view the work of a minister, and I'm not sure you understand what it means. It's not the minister's job to micromanage 4,000 Parks Canada employees and tell them to do a job they already know how to do. I'm not a forest fire professional. Neither are you, but my role...

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Your job is to tell him what the policy is. The policy comes from the top, Minister. The tone comes from the top—

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

My role is to give them...

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Please let the—

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

The tone comes from the top, Minister. I know very well how it works, Minister. While you were planning your next escapade to jump off the CN Tower and trespass on the premier's house—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I was there on the ground.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm stopping the time. I mean, this is going south.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, go ahead, Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Conservatives do not own outrage and anger at what happened this summer. For the Conservatives to come here and berate the minister in this fashion is disrespectful, particularly because we have Mr. Shepherd here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. van Koeverden, I don't care what the debate is and who's saying what, really. I just want to keep it civil and—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Respectful and on topic....

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Well, we sometimes go off topic. If the minister is asked the question, I would like for him to have the chance to respond succinctly.

I found your tone was getting a little too aggressive, Mr. Calkins, to be honest with you.

Anyway, let's start again.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

That is untrue, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Well, we could debate that until the cows come home, I'm sure.

We're not going to start over. We're going to resume the clock and see how it goes.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

There is no indication, Minister, that Parks Canada has significantly changed its fire preparedness policy in any way, shape or form in the matter of prescribed burns for fire prevention.

When I was a warden in Jasper—that's what I did in the nineties when I worked for Alberta Parks and Parks Canada—I could see what was happening with the parks policy. I could see the removal of the roads for fire suppression.

The policy shifted, and it hasn't changed one bit. The pine beetle came along and changed the entire landscape. You have the ability, Minister, to change the policy and to set the direction and tone. We had the Excelsior fire in 2015. Residents were worried. They came together. Experts from B.C. came. There was all that work done in collaboration with the Government of Alberta. Everybody said they were ready.

The fire chief in Jasper National Park was asking for more trailers for sprinklers. They were asking to update the water systems. They were asking the residents, 200 of whom came to a town hall at the fire hall, asking to remove that deadfall. You claim you've spent millions of dollars, yet you've only removed a couple of hectares of this stuff. This is dead, standing pine. It's the driest, most easily burnable and hottest-burning wood there is, and you've done nothing. There is nothing here.

However, I have this: I have a response from Jonah Mitchell to Melanie Kwong at Parks Canada that says, “At what point do we make the organizational decision to cancel planned prescribed burns in Western Canada? As more and more media articles raise public concern...public and political perception may become more important than actual prescription windows.”

This is what your organization is doing. You're not giving them the direction. That lies with you, Minister. You're responsible for that. When are you going to take responsibility for the billion dollars' worth of damage that happened in Jasper? Everybody knew this was coming. You were told—yet here we are, with a billion dollars' worth of assets burned down and our beautiful Jasper National Park, where I used to work, lying in ruins.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Why don't we give the minister a chance to answer?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

First of all, a lot has changed since the time you worked at Parks Canada. A lot has been done since the 1990s. You mentioned sprinklers. My colleague, Mr. Campbell, talked about the investments that made it possible to install sprinklers. You mentioned wood that had to be removed. We've done that, either through preventative fires or mechanical removal.

All these things have been done, but I'm the first to recognize that we need to do more to protect ourselves from climate change, unlike the Conservative Party, which is burying its head in the sand, pretending that climate change doesn't exist and that it has no effect on Canada.