Evidence of meeting #123 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fire.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Deryck Trehearne  Director General, Government Operations Centre, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Andrew Campbell  Senior Vice-President, Operations, Parks Canada Agency
Darlene Upton  Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
Trevor Bhupsingh  Assistant Deputy Minister, Emergency Management and Programs Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I call the meeting to order. Good afternoon, everyone.

Welcome, Minister, to our committee today.

Before we start with the minister and the officials, I will ask the committee if it wishes to adopt the report of the steering committee.

I would just say that if we adopt the report of the steering committee, in the second hour we will not be reviewing the report on the profits and emissions reduction efforts in Canada's oil and gas industry, because the subcommittee report stipulates we're doing that on November 4. If we adopt the report as is, then we will not be studying that draft report in the second hour.

Let's do that as a first step. Is there agreement to adopt the subcommittee report?

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I believe there is.

Okay, it's adopted.

I believe, Ms. Collins, you would like to propose something for the second hour.

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

Yes. I was hoping to get unanimous consent from the committee to ask the officials to stay for the second hour.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Do we have unanimous consent?

I think we do. Good. We're off and running.

We can proceed now with hearing from our Minister of Emergency Preparedness.

Minister, welcome to the committee.

Welcome to the officials. It's nice to see you all again.

Minister, the floor is yours.

4:30 p.m.

Vancouver South B.C.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan LiberalMinister of Emergency Preparedness

Thank you, Mr. Chair and colleagues, for inviting me here today to appear before you.

I know that honourable members and Canadians are seeking answers and want to hear about the events that unfolded in Jasper. I look forward to helping the committee members understand the Government of Canada's emergency preparedness efforts with respect to wildfire preparedness and management.

This year, Canadians witnessed more devastating destruction caused by wildfires. Over five million hectares were burned, and fires continue to burn across the country as we speak.

This past summer, right across the country, we saw fires and floods followed by hail. We're not done yet, with an active hurricane season. So far in 2024, fires have burned twice the yearly average, and Canadians are feeling the impacts on their communities.

We left no stone unturned to get Canadians prepared for the wildfire season this year, especially working with our provincial and territorial counterparts.

Following the catastrophic season in 2023, we worked with all levels of government, NGOs and private sector partners to prepare Canadians. As part of these efforts, I hosted round table discussions across the country with provincial, territorial and municipal decision-makers, first responders and experts in the field. We talked about capacity building and maintaining our response readiness. We spoke about how to best prepare, but also how to mitigate. We also spoke about the need to better integrate indigenous emergency management into our preparedness planning.

These conversations were critical in helping us strategize and coordinate this year's wildfire planning, response and recovery. We ensured open communication with provinces, territories and indigenous leaders, sharing forecasts in advance of the season and providing frequent updates as climate data became available to help form and share readiness and response across the country.

As you are no doubt aware, the government operations centre under Public Safety Canada is the lead for federal response coordination for emergency events. Throughout the wildfire season, the team worked non-stop to respond to emergencies in support of communities across the country.

That brings me to the tragic events that unfolded in Jasper and, frankly, to the reason we are here today, which is to help the people themselves and the rebuilding that is happening.

Jasper is a special part of Canada, which we can all agree on. It is a UNESCO world heritage site, a place where nature and wildlife are safeguarded, a carbon sink and a sacred land for indigenous communities. However, like anywhere in Canada, Jasper is not immune to the increased severity and frequency of climate change.

We were monitoring the wildfires in Jasper and also in northern Alberta very closely. I was in daily contact with Minister Ellis from Alberta as well, who is my counterpart there. Immediately following the devastating fire in Jasper, I toured the region with Premier Smith, Minister Ellis and other members of her government, alongside the mayor of Jasper.

Sadly, Mayor Ireland discovered that his home did not survive the fire. This had been his childhood home since the age of two. It was the home where he and his wife raised their two sons and where he had lived for 67 years.

Together, we all heard from the command leaders, which included Parks Canada members, many of whom lost their own homes and possessions in Jasper.

We heard from experts, from Calgary's heavy urban search and rescue team to fire chiefs, about what took place in Jasper. They described the wall of flames and the unpredictable wind conditions that led to the evacuation. Winds of 100 kilometres per hour with gusts of up to 150 kilometres per hour launched pine cones and branches that were on fire into the town. No fire team, no matter how experienced, could stop the fire's path.

Here I want to quote the deputy premier and minister responsible for emergency preparedness, Minister Ellis. He said that the actions first responders took saved lives in all communities. The preparation that the municipality, Parks Canada and partners in the region took in advance helped save the majority of the town through bravery and outstanding coordination on the ground.

I also want to take this opportunity to personally thank him for his efforts in working together to make sure that we had a very well-coordinated response. All orders of government stood with conviction and echoed this sentiment.

When the wildfire threatened the municipality of Jasper in July, the federal government received and approved a request from Alberta for Canadian Armed Forces support. Approximately 25,000 community members were also evacuated.

Over the course of 2024 wildfire season, we received two additional requests for federal assistance from Alberta, all in support of the community of Jasper.

Federal support included wildland firefighting resources, humanitarian and logistics support and assistance from the Canadian Armed Forces.

Support from the humanitarian workforce included wildfire mitigation and hazard cleaning support from Team Rubicon. The Canadian Red Cross provided support at reception centres to help evacuees and shared a donation-matching fund with the Government of Alberta to support their ongoing needs. The Salvation Army prepared daily meals to help first responders.

In addition to federal assistance, 850 firefighters were deployed to Jasper from other regions of Alberta and from across the country. The collaborative spirit and shared commitment in Canada to managing our fires together is in many ways our greatest asset in the fight against climate change.

We also called in additional resources from our international partners. Over 600 firefighters arrived in Alberta from Costa Rica, Australia, New Zealand, the United States, South Africa and Mexico.

In Jasper, all orders of government and partners committed to being there for the residents, and we are doing just that.

As of right now, the wildfire situation in Alberta is stable and the response is being effectively managed at the provincial level. Although we are now on the other side of the peak summer temperatures, we must remain vigilant. We continue to work on emergency preparedness measures with all our partners to further strengthen our resilience in the future. We all know we need to do more and collaborate more to ensure we can safeguard communities against increasingly active climate-driven hazards.

That is where we stand today. I'm focused on rebuilding and working with our partners on how to prevent this from happening in another town in Canada.

Again, this requires collaboration. It means having a real plan to fight climate change, because it is no longer a matter of “if” climate change will affect us. Normally we say, “But when?”, but sadly it is happening right now. We're seeing this not only across our country but around the globe.

It is my goal to create a more resilient and sustainable approach to emergency management that will help Canada prepare for, mitigate, respond to and recover from disasters such as wildfires. That is why our government developed the country's first national adaptation strategy to support a shared vision for a resilient Canada. This strategy recognizes that it will take a whole-of-government and whole-of-society approach to tackle climate change and extreme weather, and we are committed to continuing this important work to keep Canada safe at a time when we need to come together to protect what we hold so dear in Canada and to protect communities, Canadians and Canadian businesses and livelihoods.

Climate change is not just real; it's causing our disasters, as we have seen in Jasper.

In closing, I would like to thank all emergency responders for their tireless efforts on the front lines and behind the scenes. I have another message to all the firefighters, which I said to them when I was in Jasper: It is their efforts that actually saved Jasper and allowed residents to move back in quickly and for the park to reopen.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll open it up to questions.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Thank you, Minister.

We'll start the first round off with Mr. Soroka for six minutes.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be sharing the last two minutes with MP Mazier.

Minister Guilbeault called the wildfire in Jasper a success, yet a third of the town was destroyed, thousands are homeless and there was nearly a billion dollars in damage. Did his failure to implement proper mitigation go against your job to prepare for this emergency?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

When I visited Jasper, I went to the command centre and the town itself with the mayor, the premier, our ministers, and Minister Ellis, and the briefing we got showed that the preparations Jasper had made, including the FireSmart program that was conducted and, more importantly, the coordinated training that all the different agencies had done just a few months prior, led not only to saving the town but making sure the evacuation was quick and very successful.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Okay.

The wildfire in Jasper was a disaster waiting to happen, with experts and officials raising alarms for over eight years. When were you first informed, either by Minister Guilbeault or any other member of the Liberal government, that Jasper was a tinderbox ready to ignite? When were you informed, and by whom?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

First of all, I wouldn't agree with that assessment. Across the country and in British Columbia and Alberta, in the forecast of extreme heat we were seeing, there were parts of the country we knew were prone to wildfires.

I believe I first learned of the wildfire just a few days before the evacuation took place. When we are informed of such an event, one thing we always make sure of through the Government Operations Centre is that all the resources are in place and that they have all that is needed. We were told at that time that additional resources were being moved in and things were being held at that time, until those gusts of wind I was talking about happened, which made the situation worse and had apparently never happened in Jasper before.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Minister, I think you're forgetting the fact that with the mountain pine beetle, there were a lot of dead trees. I'm not saying there wasn't fire-smarting in town; the problem is that fire-smarting wasn't done further back, like a mile or two miles. That's where the problem was.

You had huge amounts of fuel sitting there, essentially, dead trees that could ignite at any time and, yes, once that fire started there, the problem was that you were not going to be able to stop it. That's our point. Why were those trees not removed? When and how were you informed that more should have been done?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

As the Minister of Emergency Preparedness, my job is to look at responding to the emergency, but I'll tell you what I was briefed on when I was on the ground. I'll let Parks Canada and others explain further on this if they need to.

When I was briefed on the fire-smarting that actually took place, if it hadn't been for the fire-smarting that was done, the wall of flame that was reported would have kept going. It actually would stop....

It was because of those winds, which had never taken place before, of 100 kilometres per hour, which gusted up to 150 kilometres per hour, that launched those pine cones and branches that were on fire into the town and actually set the town on fire.

However, from everything we were briefed on, if it weren't for the preparation that had taken place, the situation would have been much worse.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Okay. I won't get into severe winds in mountain areas, but I'll pass it on to MP Mazier.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Thank you.

Minister, you're responsible for emergency preparedness. Do you agree that prescribed burns help prevent wildfires, yes or no?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

First, I'm not the expert on how to deal with that. The experts would have to look at...because I have seen where certain places—

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Minister, the question is pretty straightforward. Do you agree that prescribed burns help prevent wildfires, yes or no?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

It all depends on which area. Each expert.... For example, in the Yukon they don't—

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Minister, I tell you that they do actually help.

Documents obtained suggest that Minister Guilbeault's department was working against your mandate. A senior official at Parks Canada wrote in an email, months before the Jasper wildfires, and I quote, “At what point do we make the organizational decision to cancel prescribed burns in Western Canada?” Then the official stated, and I quote, “...political perception may become more important than actual prescription windows.”

Newly obtained emails now reveal that this discussion was so alarming that the executive director of conservation replied, begging Parks Canada to put forest management above politics, and I quote, “I hope we don't get into a blanket shutdown,” she said. “It is critical to continue those kind of burns. It is how they maintain the [community firebreak], and when they fall behind, it is very difficult to catch up.”

When were you first informed that Minister Guilbeault's department was discussing cancelling prescribed burns because of political optics?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

First of all, I think those questions were already answered earlier. What I can tell you is that when we were in Jasper—

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

I am asking you.

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Yes, Mr. van Koeverden, you have a point of order.

A voice

I'm not getting the French—

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

It just seems like the Conservative member doesn't want to allow the minister to respond. He's done his two-minute speech and he's not provided the minister any opportunity to respond to his question.