Evidence of meeting #123 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fire.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Deryck Trehearne  Director General, Government Operations Centre, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Andrew Campbell  Senior Vice-President, Operations, Parks Canada Agency
Darlene Upton  Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
Trevor Bhupsingh  Assistant Deputy Minister, Emergency Management and Programs Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

I can only answer for my portfolio.

What I can tell you is that we have learned from Fort McMurray, West Kelowna and Enterprise, and we try to share those lessons. We will be making sure that all the lessons that have been learned here will be applied not only to that area but to others.

What I have also been assured of is looking at what else needs to be done. This is one thing I took away from Mayor Ireland, who has personally had to deal with the devastation of losing his own home and the work that needs to be done. They—

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Minister, I'll have to cut you off because I've given you some time there.

What needs to be done is that we need to start clearing these trees and we need to take action to prevent the fires from hitting Jasper and other towns in the Rocky Mountain national parks and our other national parks that are at risk.

I'll move on to my next question, Minister.

From the way you're speaking here at the committee, I think it would be more appropriate if your ministry was the ministry of emergency response, because I'm not seeing a lot of preparedness from your government.

What role did you take in the years and the months leading up to this Jasper fire to prepare Jasper and other towns and national parks, which are under federal jurisdiction, for the threat of wildfires? As Minister of Emergency Preparedness, what did you do?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

As to our role in emergency preparedness, one of the things we do is look at, one, the prediction of where potentially fires can take place. We made that information available as far as possible.

The other aspect, one of the things we prepare, is making sure that evacuees get what they need in support. That's one of the things that we also learned from last year, and the management workforce program played a very important role in that.

When it comes to the preparedness side, that's a responsibility shared with the provinces and the municipalities in being able to work together. I have been told—

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Thank you.

I only have 30 seconds seconds left, Minister. I have given you some good time to answer that.

On what day did Alberta make a request for assistance with Jasper? What day did the request for assistance come to you?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Well, the actual first request that was made was actually not for Jasper. We were actually—

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

I'm asking for the one for Jasper specifically, though, Minister.

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

But I need to....

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Okay.

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

I'm trying to explain to you how the situation took place. It wasn't just like one moment and then another.

When I was on the phone with Minister Ellis throughout the day, we were actually looking at providing support for northern Alberta, while literally at the same time the situation in Jasper was deteriorating. The actual.... We didn't even look at where the resources were going. We were dealing with Jasper, and then the decision was made during my visit to shift the resources, and that was their decision to make.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

What day, Minister?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

What was the date on that?

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Thank you. The time's up. I'm sorry.

A voice

It was the 22nd of July.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Thanks.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Mr. van Koeverden is next.

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, officials, for joining us today.

I mean more than just thank you for joining us today; thank you for your work over the course of this very, very challenging wildfire season in Alberta and right across Canada.

Unlike the Conservatives, I want to commend you for your work and for the preparation you undertook. That work saved lives. I want to be very clear: The work undertaken by non-partisan officials, Parks Canada staff, firefighters, forestry workers and everybody who goes into those places to do that work saved lives, whether it was putting out a fire, creating an evacuation plan, talking to families or printing the literature and going door to door to make sure that families knew what the plan was.

I've found the over-politicization of this natural disaster over the last couple of meetings to be disgusting. It's a natural disaster impacted by human events like climate change. In this case, it wasn't impacted by arson. I believe we've heard that the wildfires were started by lightning, not by a campfire or a cigarette butt or something.

I've read what Mayor Ireland said. Mayor Ireland said they're devastated. He lost his childhood home, as you mentioned, Minister, the home of his whole life—but they can rebuild. They'll recover. Jasper will economically recover, because it's a place where everybody wants to go. It's beautiful.

We can't rebuild human lives. The work that was undertaken by your colleagues, by the staffs, by Parks Canada, by the Minister of Emergency Preparedness and everybody who focused on this problem, going years back, saved lives, so thank you.

A couple of years ago, we saw the same thing happen. We've been seeing the proliferation of wildfires, the lengthening of the seasons and the severity of the fires increasing because of climate change, because of drier forests, because of infestations and because of a lot of other factors, but we've also seen an over-politicization of these fires.

A couple of years ago, we saw Donald Trump blaming Governor Newsom for not clearing dead wood from the forest bed. I've spent time in forests before. I know what a 30,000-hectare forest looks like. It's an enormous undertaking to suggest that any large group of individuals would go out into the forest and clear all that dead wood. Forest management is important, but blaming forest management for wildfires and for natural disasters in the face of a climate crisis is absurd.

What's more absurd than that is when recently a Conservative member included the name of a non-partisan official, somebody who works in this field professionally, in a tweet. What happened subsequently was that this professional Canadian, dedicating their time and their career to keeping Canadians safe, received death threats as a result of that tweet from a Conservative member. I'm not going to bring names into this—they're not important—but that's what we get when we overly politicize natural disasters, when we take things out of context and when we try to score points off of people's lives, livelihoods and homes that have been lost. I want to call that out as being inappropriate, unacceptable and disgusting.

Minister, I find the over-politicization of this natural disaster to be troubling, and I commend you on your cross-partisan work with Minister Ellis in Alberta. I was actually in Algonquin Park thinking about how beautiful it was when I heard on the radio that you were in Edmonton working with Minister Ellis. Thank you very much for that. On behalf of Canadians who love the outdoors and on behalf of Jasperites, thank you for the work you did that saved lives.

Minister, there is always more work to be done, as you said. What more can we do to prevent the over-proliferation of wildfires with that severity? What forest management techniques could be considered while we also undertake Canada's responsibility to mitigate climate change? We have such a responsibility to do so.

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Absolutely. Thank you very much for the question.

In this portfolio especially, I make it a point, in any emergency I've dealt with or in conversations I've had, that we don't politicize. I work with many different provinces and various parties that are in government at this time. We work on dealing with the issue. If there's a concern, we deal with it directly. I have some very good relationships, especially with Alberta.

At the end of the day, climate change is having an impact. Whether you call it that or something else, reality is reality. It's going to hit. We all do need to be prepared for it, and that's what we have been doing. Based on what I saw in Jasper with Parks Canada and all the experts on the ground, all of them said—if you could have been there for that briefing—that they'd done everything in their power. It was Mother Nature. You could not have stopped what was coming—

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Thank you very much.

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

—but yet there is work to be done all across the country.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Ms. Pauzé, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We're here to talk about Bill C‑76. We've talked a great deal about precautions and prevention.

Do you think that this bill will lead to more precautions and prevention measures to limit the impact of a potential fire?

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Yes, I think Andrew can speak to that bill better than I can.

5:15 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Operations, Parks Canada Agency

Andrew Campbell

Under the bill, the minister could delegate certain powers to the municipality of Jasper, for example. The municipality could implement certain bylaws to improve the situation.

They could pass a bylaw that says there can be no—and the mayor had used this yesterday—cedar shakes on the roofs of homes in Jasper. They could put in those sorts of things, which would help to not have the fire spread from the new homes to other places.

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Okay.

Bill C‑76 is an additional tool to help take action in time.

Geolocation is also quite a powerful tool. Access to specific information on soil and weather conditions could provide an incentive to set up a protocol for immediate action.

Isn't that crucial in the event of a fire?

5:15 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Operations, Parks Canada Agency

Andrew Campbell

We and our colleagues at the Government Operations Centre are looking at the type of tools that we could use. We've done this with Environment and Climate Change Canada. The department currently has a contract until it can acquire its own satellites for Canada, in order to obtain as much information as possible.

In fact, at the GOC meeting this week we just had a presentation on that very system.