Environment Committee on Oct. 9th, 2024

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That's what the problem really comes to. My people in Jasper are saying that they're very concerned about the northwest. If there wasn't enough fire-smarting done in the south and one-third of the town burned, what are the odds, then, when the next fire comes from the west? They feel that there wasn't enough done. How are they going to be secure, knowing that they're going into the 2025 fire season and that they're potentially going to be burned out? That's something we really need to get down to. How are we going to protect the rest of the town? We've already lost one-third, and 2,000 people are homeless. We don't want to start rebuilding structures only to find out that they'll potentially be burned down again. That's my concern. If we don't really get down to the meat of it....

It's not necessarily.... I don't want to place blame on anybody, to be perfectly honest with you. I want to get down to the facts. What can we do to make sure this doesn't happen again? Everyone is looking at it as, “Yes, Jasper was bad, but we protected it.” That's great, but what about Lake Louise? What about Banff? What about Canmore? We have other areas that are right in the national park or adjacent to a national park that are in the same kind of situation. If they've managed the forest the same way in Banff as they did in Jasper, is Banff now up as the next place that's going to burn?

That's what I think everyone is really concerned about in Alberta, in the mountain park region. Are we doing the best we can to protect the communities? I don't think that's the case. If you can honestly say that we did everything possible and one-third of the town still burned, well, I don't believe we did everything we possibly could.

We heard from different people on the fire management. We heard from different people on forest management. I think what this really comes down to is forest management and making sure that we are actually managing the forests properly. When you have huge amounts of fuel sitting there—essentially, dead trees from the mountain pine beetle kill—it's like gasoline. When you fire-smart within—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Excuse me for interrupting you, Mr. Soroka.

I want to let the committee know that I've cancelled the second panel. The witnesses who were online have been told we won't be going ahead with the second panel.

Go ahead, Mr. Soroka.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

As a point of clarification or a point of order, Mr. Chair, is this motion reducing the number of meetings we're going to have?

Just to be clear, the motion was not put forward by the Conservatives during committee business, but rather during a meeting when we have witnesses who prepared, out of their own time, to join us and provide testimony. It has now been cancelled, because the Conservatives don't know how to manage their time during the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Well, I'm not going to attribute blame to anyone. We will reinvite them.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

We need to inconvenience our witnesses because of the timing of this motion. It's absurd.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Call it what you wish, but they were advised they will not be giving testimony.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I'm seeking accountability.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

They will not be giving testimony today. We will reinvite them.

We will not have one less hour of hearings on the finance study. We'll just have to make it up at a later date. I've cleared the decks so we can have a full discussion on this.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, what's the point of order, Mr. Mazier?

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

It's just a point of clarification, actually.

What we're debating here is this:

That the committee expand its study on the Jasper wildfire by four additional meetings to hear from forest management experts, stakeholders, Indigenous communities and impacted individuals—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

This has been read before, Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

—and the committee invite the ministerial lead for Jasper, Randy Boissonnault, to appear for no less than one hour.

That's what we're discussing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Mazier, that is not a point of order.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

It seems I need to clarify—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Clarification is not a point of order.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Well, I'd like to make a point of order to say that it's clear to me that, by bringing this motion forward during—

[An hon. member]

That's not a point of order.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

You're wasting our time, Conservatives.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I am not the greatest expert on procedure, but I know that is not a point of order.

Mr. Soroka, the floor is still yours.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Are you sure I can go on before anyone else interjects? Okay, I'll try.

I was talking about forest management. We were saying how the mountain pine beetle had a devastating effect on the amount of fuel that was sitting there. That's what really caused Jasper to burn—the high, intense flames. It was miles outside of town, and once it got to that intense fire, there was nothing stopping it. Absolutely, they are right. I am not disputing that.

The point, though, is this: If we had done better forest management in close proximity to the townsite—I'm talking about five or six miles away—to clear out a lot of that deadfall, there wouldn't have been that continual fuel, always coming with that same mass of fire. That's where our problem lies. We didn't do a better job of forest management.

Yes, let's not deny that it was dry, or that it was a hot summer. What are we doing to minimize that? All I'm hearing is, “Well, you can't do much because that's just climate change. That's it. There's nothing else.” Well, that's poor management, as far as I am concerned. That's all it comes down to, just stating a quote or putting a little tweet out there. That is not proper fire management.

Is Mr. van Koeverden making another point of order, or is he just rambling there?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No, I don't believe so.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I just wanted to make sure, because I heard some rumblings over there. I wasn't certain if it was his stomach, or if he was just being a pain.... No, forget that. Anyway, I like the smile. I'm glad I made you laugh.

That's where I think we need to continue to study a bit more. There are other witnesses who need to come forward, so we can see what we can do to make sure this doesn't happen again. We need to make sure our communities are safe. It's not only in the mountain national parks region, in Jasper and Banff. We need to make sure that any community in close proximity to a forest that is managed by Parks Canada or the federal government—

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Is this a point of order?