Environment Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2024

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I would like to know if we have confirmation as to when Minister Boissonnault will be coming to our committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We do not.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I think we need to have that as soon as possible, because many people in Jasper have many questions that need to be answered.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're working on it and trying to get a confirmation as soon as possible.

Good afternoon, colleagues and witnesses.

We are continuing our study of the factors leading to the recent fires in Jasper National Park.

For the first panel, we have Brock Mulligan, senior vice-president, Alberta Forest Products Association. He's here in person. From the Legislative Assembly of Alberta, we have Heather Sweet, MLA, Edmonton-Manning, who is joining us via video conference. From the Bighorn Stoney First Nation, we have Barry Wesley, consultation officer and traditional knowledge-keeper. From the Lac Ste. Anne Métis Community Association, also by video conference, we have Dr. Tracy Friedel, president.

We'll start with Mr. Mulligan for five minutes.

[Brock Mulligan, Senior Vice-President, Alberta Forest Products Association]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will give you a bit of context for the Alberta Forest Products Association, or AFPA.

We represent 29 forestry companies in Alberta, and our members range all the way from publicly listed companies to family-run businesses that have been passed down from generation to generation. Our members sustainably harvest timber, mostly on public land, and make high-quality products that are in demand here in Canada and around the world. We also play a significant role in managing, sustaining and caring for Alberta's forests.

Sustainability is the key to our business. While companies that are 80 to 100 years old are the exception to the rule in other industries, they're the norm in forestry. It's only possible because companies plant decades in advance, plant more trees than they harvest and take care of the land. In Alberta, forestry companies plant over 100 million seedlings annually and grow roughly three trees for every one that's harvested.

For many years, we've been deeply concerned about the situation in Jasper. While our members don't typically operate in the park, they operate on adjacent lands, caring for and managing those forests. Unhealthy forests in the park affect neighbouring forests and increase the risk of fires and pine beetle infestations that know no borders or boundaries.

The other day, I dug up a newspaper article that we wrote in 2017 predicting that the next major fire would be in Hinton or Jasper. Sadly, we were right. We had expressed concern about the combination of pine beetle, increasingly warm, dry summers and unmanaged forests within the park. We had talked about how fires are a natural part of the forest cycle in this area of the world, but they're dangerous around communities and people, even more so when we have hot, dry summers and increasingly volatile fires.

The majority of forests across Canada have evolved through disturbance. It's certainly prudent to extinguish fires from a community safety perspective, but this has resulted in unnaturally old forests and volatile conditions. We believe that harvesting and replanting forests is a safer alternative to fires. Old, uniform forests are much more at risk of fires than forests with a more natural mix of age composition. We can create that mix through active forest management.

We also believe there's a fundamental flaw in the Government of Canada's approach to forest management. This flaw is the belief that overmature forests should not be managed, even if they are aging and at risk of catastrophic fires. This was exactly the situation in Jasper, and sadly that risk was realized. Not only does the belief that forests should be preserved in an unnatural state seem to be entrenched in national parks policy, but it has extended to provincial lands through legislation like the Species at Risk Act.

Right now, in Alberta, companies are prevented from managing and operating in large tracts of older, overmature forests because of caribou. The reality is that, just like in Jasper, these forests are at risk of catastrophic fires. When those fires happen, it will be bad for communities, caribou and the sustainability of industries operating on the land base.

For us, this exercise isn't about looking back. It's about forging a collaborative path forward, one that protects the communities we live in and love, the land we cherish and the forests that sustain us. We believe unequivocally that this path involves more active management of our forests—looking at which areas are at risk of becoming the next Jasper and taking steps such as harvesting and replanting with younger trees, which are much less at risk of fire.

We believe it involves taking a hard look at any policies or legislation preventing this work. Policies for national parks and the Species at Risk Act are in urgent need of reform. We believe this path involves a co-operative approach and open communication. Conversations on the management of our forests need to happen among all levels of government, indigenous communities, industry and other users of the land. They need to leverage the expertise of foresters and people who live on the land, as well as the perspectives of local communities. They need to happen urgently.

Let's not waste this opportunity to begin those conversations.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. Mulligan.

We'll now go to Ms. Sweet for five minutes.

[Heather Sweet, Member of the Legislative Assembly for Edmonton-Manning, Legislative Assembly of Alberta]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. It is a pleasure to be with you here today. Thank you for inviting me.

I am joining you from Edmonton, Alberta, on Treaty No. 6 territory and the home of the Métis people, who share a deep connection to this land.

I was saddened by the tragic Jasper fire, the loss of wildland firefighter Morgan Kitchen, the loss of homes and businesses, and the emotional toll on the people of Jasper.

I would like to focus on two aspects of the Jasper fire and on ways that we, as legislators, can move forward in a non-partisan, collaborative way: the first being the enhancement of FireSmart, and the second being the development of an economic recovery program that will ensure the financial success of the residents and local businesses still operating in Jasper.

Alberta has a program that focuses on wildfire resilience based in science, and it works. The FireSmart program must see a significant increase in financial and policy-level support from all levels of government. There needs to be a strong focus on supporting homeowner-level improvements in the home ignition zone, which focuses on the home itself and everything within 30 metres of the home. Research has shown that up to 90% of structures are lost to ember ignitions during wildland-urban interface events. In Jasper, fire within the community was started by ember ignitions. This quickly led to structure-to-structure ignition, overwhelming the capability of firefighter resources within the community.

The Government of Canada has offered green energy grants to homeowners in the past, and a similar grant program needs to be established to support homeowners in adapting their homes to be more resilient not only to the impact of wildfire but also to the broader impacts of a changing climate.

The National Research Council published its “National Guide for Wildland-Urban Interface Fires” in 2020. These measures have not yet been adopted in the national or provincial building codes, and this needs to change. The Government of Canada needs to expedite the implementation and incorporation of these construction measures into the national building code. We need to build for our changing climate and ensure that new buildings in at-risk areas are adapted to withstand the impacts of wildfire. As we rebuild Jasper, these codes should be followed, with funding from all levels of government to bridge the loss that will happen with insurance companies.

There is a defined need for better access to wildland firefighting training for municipal, structural firefighters. The Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs passed a resolution in late September on this very issue. We need to leverage the training capacity and capabilities of our structural fire services with well-established and capable training programs to ensure that all firefighters across Canada are trained to a national standard.

The management of fuel—vegetation—needs to be encouraged on a much larger scale. There should be fuel reduction in buffer zones around communities on both public and private lands.

The Alberta staffing model and structure for wildland firefighting are not sustainable. With short employment contracts of four to six months, low wages and extremely limited long-term career opportunities within wildfire management agencies, it is becoming increasingly difficult to adequately recruit and retain wildland firefighters. Wildland firefighter crews are less experienced and being asked to respond to more challenging wildfires for extended periods of time, without adequate time for rest and recovery. This is putting our firefighters at much greater risk of injury and line-of-duty fatalities.

On a broader level, the overall Canadian model is also facing challenges. In 2023, all provinces across Canada had extreme wildfire activity. Resources were not available to share across provincial borders, and many fires were under-resourced. Between May 1 and August 31, the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre listed 113 days at level five. All available wildland firefighter resources were committed, and no resources were available to support provinces. Many international partners came to our aid. However, reliance on international support comes at great financial expense to the provinces and Ottawa. We need to do more to build capacity within our own wildland firefighting industry.

In relation to the economic recovery of Jasper, it is important that all levels of government work together to develop an economic response program. Jasper is an isolated community with a heavy reliance on tourism. Businesses make most of their revenue in the high season during the summer months, when tourists flood in from across the country and the world. Starting on July 22, most of that revenue was lost. That's three months of high-season revenue gone just like that, putting a serious strain on local businesses. In other jurisdictions, when fire has impacted a community, we have seen how they often find economic stability through these resources.

I appreciate the call for housing, but I would also stress that, without employment opportunities in Jasper, Jasperites will not be able to pay their rent. Therefore, we need an economic strategy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Wesley for five minutes.

[Barry Wesley, Consultation Officer, Traditional Knowledge Keeper, Bighorn Stoney First Nation]

Âba wathtech, everyone.

First of all, I want to thank the first responders. During the time of the fire, they did a great job.

Jasper National Park lies in the Stoney people's traditional territory. This is where my ancestors lived. During that time, as history shows, there was never a forest fire that big, because we, as Stoney indigenous people, stewarded the land. That was our job. The Creator has given us a responsibility and a role to play in this ecosystem. With the mountains being their home, my people did that until 1907, when Jasper National Park was created. Right after that, we were no longer able to maintain and steward the land, because we were outlawed.

Since that period of time, all of these things have escalated. There is an overgrowth of forestry, and we also have invasive species coming in. Before that, there was no evidence of invaders. Also, the forest was being maintained. Through our duties as Stoney people, we did pipe ceremonies. That helps maintain. That's the way of maintaining the earth, and it's very important.

From what I've seen, traditional science has not been recognized in the parks or across Canada, but I'm not here to complain or anything. I just came here wanting to help. I think the traditional knowledge of the Stoney people should be recognized and used as a tool, so we don't have any more disasters. This is why I'm here.

Also, as Îethka Stoney people, we value kinship. That's very important. Kinship is sharing our knowledge with our visitors and our generation. As Stoney people, we have a role, and our responsibility is to live a good life. Not just Jasper but also the mountains are a destination for tourism. We need to be heard, because that's where we live. My ancestors lived there. Today, we still exist, and we need to be recognized.

If we can help in any way, that would be good. We did a ceremony for the firefighters back in August. After the ceremony, within a week, the fire rested. Everything you see, hear and feel is a living being. That's our belief. If we work together with it, through us, this beautiful landscape will continue to be beautiful.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Last but not least, we'll go to Dr. Friedel, who's joining us by video conference.

Please go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Dr. Tracy L. Friedel, President, Lac Ste. Anne Métis Community Association]

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

[Witness spoke in Cree and provided the following translation:]

Thank you for allowing me to be here today. My name is Tracy Friedel. I'm a Nehiyaw-Métis woman from the Métis people of Lac Ste. Anne, Alberta.

[English]

I am currently the president of the representative governing body for the Lac Ste. Anne Métis. We are descendants of Cree Métis families who have occupied the landscape of west central Alberta since the late 1700s to the early 1800s, including in what today is known as Jasper National Park.

The history of establishing national parks in Canada is complex and controversial, particularly as it concerns the displacement of indigenous peoples, as was described by Barry. These protected areas are praised for their natural beauty and their commitment to conservation, but their creation inevitably came at the expense of indigenous peoples, some of whom lived on these lands since time immemorial.

In overseeing Jasper National Park, the federal government implemented policies that resulted in the forcible removal or displacement of indigenous families and communities from these lands, disrupting traditional ways of life and connection to important places. Forcible removal without compensation and the barring of indigenous peoples from practising their cultural activities within the park's boundaries disrupted communities and livelihoods. It also adversely impacted their cultural practices. The legacies of this displacement are profound and enduring.

In the case of Jasper National Park, since about 2005 there's been increasing recognition of those injustices that are facing the indigenous peoples who were forcibly displaced. The Jasper Indigenous Forum brings park staff, managers and representatives of indigenous groups together with others to work towards returning indigenous presence and culture to the landscape. Under this initiative, the park involves historically connected first nation and Métis communities in park management matters, including recently in fire management initiatives where there has been an expanding effort to undertake prescribed burns. Unfortunately, though, there is a lot to catch up on regarding a century of fire suppression, the impacts of climate change and the wish to meet the expectations of Jasper residents and Canadian and international visitors who desire a certain conception of nature.

We know from our elders that fire was a way to promote ecological diversity and reduce the risk of wildfires. This type of cultural burning links to the idea of fire as medicine and was key to proper management of local ecosystems, something that indigenous peoples were not given due credit for. With indigenous peoples removed from the park, fire suppression became a priority.

The Jasper wildfires demonstrate the compounding of mismanaged landscapes and climate change impacts and reveal the tensions that exist between a focus on recreation, tourism and conservation on the one hand and indigenous reconciliation on the other hand. From here, it's important for Parks Canada to enhance its collaboration with indigenous peoples, including a goal of reintroducing cultural burns as an aspect of park management. In addition to leading to enhanced biodiversity, which is important to such other objectives as caribou recovery, this activity can also be understood as an aspect of addressing the economic effects that forest displacement had on the removal of indigenous peoples from these lands.

In studying these factors, as this committee is doing, Lac Ste. Anne Métis call on Parks Canada to commit to deepening the relationship building that is already under way by ensuring that management arrangements more closely align with indigenous perspectives and aspirations regarding conservation. These efforts are crucial for advancing reconciliation.

Kinana'skomitina'wa'w. Hay hay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

We'll start the questioning with Mr. Lloyd.

You have six minutes.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today.

I want to particularly thank you, Dr. Friedel and Mr. Wesley, for your testimony. I agree that we need to integrate more traditional indigenous knowledge at parks in forest management. Your comments today are much appreciated.

I start my questioning with you, Mr. Mulligan. You spoke about Parks Canada and the government having a flawed approach to forest management. Could you tell us a bit about what that flawed approach looks like?

[Brock Mulligan]

Yes, thank you, MP Lloyd.

I think one of the major flaws in the approach is that it assumes that industrial forest disturbance is automatically negative and that the forests ought to be left to their natural devices, even if they are very much at risk of fire. Sadly, we saw that it was exactly what happened in Jasper. Yes, forests that are in a completely natural state have many benefits, but when you have that type of forest around communities, it's inherently dangerous. Many folks, I think, have spoken about that risk for years on end, and unfortunately it was realized.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

We had witnesses in the past and had ministers of the government talk about ecological integrity being their number one priority. With you being experts in sustainability and forest management, is it a natural part of the ecology of forests that they be maintained as old-growth forests and that they have fire suppressed for decades and decades?

[Brock Mulligan]

Boreal forests are forests that are fire-driven, and we know that. Fire is certainly a beneficial thing on the landscape, but when you have these large, naturally intense fires in forests that are simply left, it's quite dangerous.

We think that sustainable harvesting and management is a much safer alternative to these large fires. It's not a panacea. It's one tool in the tool kit, but given the direness of the situation we're facing, it's important not to exclude that tool.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

In 2017, when your organization wrote that article talking about the risk of the pine beetle and the risk of fire to Hinton and Jasper, you estimated that it would cost about $85 million to put in an action plan that would protect those communities and protect the park from this major fire.

What would be the number that you would place on that if the government had done that, let's say, in the last two years? How much would that have cost?

[Brock Mulligan]

I'm not sure about that from a number perspective. There was $75 million allocated to pine beetle mitigation funding. That money has been very successful in mitigating the spread of pine beetle in areas outside of the park, and that was part of the point of that article. Unfortunately, within the park, the pine beetle has spread like crazy, and we've seen the unfortunate consequences of that.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

The pine beetle being allowed to spread, largely unfettered, in our national park has had a devastating impact on the areas around the park. Is that what you're saying?

[Brock Mulligan]

It certainly had a devastating impact on forests within the park, and it has necessitated mitigative actions outside of the park to prevent it from spreading further. Companies have looked at the situation within the park and said, “Oh my goodness. That's what's coming at us”. Of the pine stands immediately adjacent to the park that are at risk of the pine beetle spreading through, many of those stands have been harvested, and that strategy has been very successful at stopping the further eastward spread.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I haven't heard the argument made, but some people might accuse your organization of maybe having a financial motive for wanting to go into the parks. However, I was speaking to some forestry experts in my riding, which is a major lumber-processing area, and there really isn't a lot of value after several years when these pine beetle-infested trees are allowed to sit, year after year. It's mostly cut up and taken for wood chips and pellets, and then it's sold.

Is there a major economic value to the wood in the parks that has been used by pine beetles?

[Brock Mulligan]

The main value that our industry has in this conversation is the health of our forests throughout the province, because that's the right thing to do from an ecological standpoint and that's the lifeblood of our industry.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

We know from previous witnesses from other forest organizations that Parks Canada, in the past, has actually brought in forestry companies to do some selective logging in the national park. In those cases, Parks Canada was actually paid some money for those things.

How much would it cost the taxpayer if the Liberal government had actually undertaken a proactive approach to selectively harvest the dead pine beetle-infested trees and to replant them with more fire-resistant trees around the town of Jasper to protect it from future risk?