Evidence of meeting #131 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
The subamendment is about Jasper, so a discussion of Jasper is in order, even if it is repetitive sometimes.
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Okay, but is it relevant to Bill C-73 or to Jasper, this article that he is reading from just to fill time?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I think the point of the amendment, if I may, is to try to force Mr. Boissonnault to come earlier than December 4. It's intended to be leverage, so I guess you could say it's not really about.... The whole motion is about Bill C-73, but the subamendment that we're discussing is really, I think, intended to put pressure on Mr. Boissonnault to come earlier, so that is basically, I think, the tack that is being taken. As long as we talk about Jasper, I guess it's relevant, because the subamendment speaks of Jasper and Minister Boissonnault.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you, Chair, for that clarification.
Another newspaper headline read, “Federal negligence at root of Jasper's wildfire devastation.”
Yet another article stated:
...federal Environment and Climate Change Minister Steven Guilbeault claimed that Ottawa could not have done better either before or during the fire.
At any suggestion that Ottawa was lacking, he trotted out climate change as the true culprit. It was clear more than once that a big ugly fire in Alberta is a great boost for his climate [change] agenda.
Focusing on climate also turned minds away from serious questions about Ottawa's performance as the power in charge of both prevention and firefighting.
On October 9, the Jasper wildfire investigation heard damning testimony from a forestry expert who warned the Liberals in 2017 that the Jasper wildfire was not a matter of if, but when.
Ken Hodges stated, “Nothing was done to address the landscape of...beetle-killed timber to prevent the megafire”.
He also stated, in a written submission to this committee, “Someone needs to take responsibility and be held to account for this calamity of errors and not blame other parties or climate change for the fire. Government and [P]arks [Canada] screwed up big time, [and] they ignored the issues.”
God bless Ken Hodges.
He then asked, “Was the inaction by [P]arks [Canada], knowing the issue and concerns, that created this catastrophe a criminal act?”
Even the CBC was sounding the alarm over this damning evidence. In an article published on October 10, a CBC headline read, “Wildfire could have been avoided with proper planning, witnesses and experts say”. Shortly after this, the Edmonton Journal published an article with the headline, “Trudeau's wildfire strategy: Permit old, dry, decaying forests and blame climate change”.
Chair, the only ones playing politics with this matter are the Liberals, who want this investigation to end. That's why they shut down a meeting to prevent a vote on our motion to summon the former environment minister, Catherine McKenna. Minister McKenna was warned in 2017 about this deadfall in Jasper. She should be appearing at this committee with Minister Boissonnault.
On October 23, the Alberta Forest Products Association revealed that they also had warned that a fire in Jasper was inevitable if the Liberals did not act. Minister Boissonnault was at the cabinet table. He needs to answer for the government's inaction.
At the same time, at the same meeting during the Jasper wildfire investigation, a local Métis leader revealed that the Liberals did not build a proper fireguard around the town of Jasper. She testified, “There wasn't an appropriate fireguard put in place.” Are the Liberals going to criticize indigenous leaders for sounding the alarm on Jasper? What does Minister Boissonnault have to say about this?
Canadians were shocked to learn that at least one Parks Canada employee was fired for speaking out against the mismanagement at Jasper National Park, according to the former MP for the region. Another headline from a CBC article read, “Parks Canada employee terminated after voicing concern, former MP testifies”.
Day after day, new evidence—
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Was the MP Mr. Mazier referred to the former MP for the region, who admitted to lying in his testimony and walked back his comments, or was it a different one?
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
I'm just asking for clarification. He said “the other MP”. He should be more specific for the analysts.
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
There was one who lied during his testimony and had to walk back his comments.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
I have a point of order.
Talking about the testimony of a witness as a lie is not correct as a member of Parliament. I think that we have to be very high profile in this issue, instead of being.... If they want to attack us, go on...but not the testimony of a witness.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Another headline from a CBC article read, “Parks Canada employee terminated after voicing concern, former MP testifies”.
Day after day, new evidence emerges at the Jasper wildfire investigation that shows the Liberals were negligent. Minister Boissonnault should be here. He should be testifying at this committee. This committee should not be conducting any business until he testifies.
We just received an email from a local resident in Jasper who wrote to former environment minister, Catherine McKenna, in 2018. She stated in her email that she never got an answer from Catherine McKenna at the time, back in 2018.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.
I'm sorry. I'm not sure I heard that correctly. Did Mr. Mazier just say they aren't going to let any committee business happen until Randy Boissonnault testifies?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Not directly. He expressed the view that the committee should not conduct any business until Minister Boissonnault appears. That's his opinion.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
We just received an email from a local resident in Jasper who wrote to former environment Minister Catherine McKenna in 2018. She stated in her email that she never got an answer from Catherine McKenna at the time, back in 2018, while she was the minister in charge of Environment and Climate Change from 2015 to 2019. She guessed her concerns were not important enough for the department. She then stated, “If you are willing to have me testifying based on what I know and wrote back in 2018, let me know. I'm terrified, but I'm ready if you have to. My town, my house, my whole life could disappear if we do not do anything to protect the town from the west, and this is the fact.”
It's people like this who understand the importance of the Jasper wildfire investigation. They are the people actually living there. This isn't about politics. It's about accountability and their future. Minister Boissonnault must be held accountable.
In 2018, local Jasper resident Marie-France Miron raised concerns with the mismanagement of Jasper National Park in a letter to the editor. I'm going to read her letter into the record so that Minister Boissonnault better understands the mismanagement in Jasper before he testifies. She wrote:
Dear editor,
Mr. Fehr remained silent and for more than three weeks he ignored not only articles written in the Fitzhugh about Jasper's fire threat but also residents' letters personally addressed to him. It took him however, just 82 minutes to reply to a possible protest to be held regarding this serious issue. I’m very pleased as I also noticed that the Information and Fire Updates web page was updated twice and the first time was on June 1, exactly two days after I sent that email to him. Did you know we now have a link to the current fire danger rating which was updated on June 4? I wonder if it is only a coincidence.
The “Mountain Pine Beetle Jasper National Park Management Plan 2016” recommended by Mr. Rasheed, resource conservation manager and approved by Mr. Fehr mentioned by myself on May 17 states that because the [mountain pine beetle] pose a threat to the national Parks and also Jasper townsite, intervention is necessary:
“Active management is recommended when the structure and function of an ecosystem has been altered and manipulation is the only possible alternative available to restore ecological integrity. Intervention is triggered when there may be adverse effects on neighboring lands, major park facilities, public health or safety will be threatened or the objectives of a park management plan cannot be achieved.”
I now therefore know for a fact that Mr. Rasheed and Mr. Fehr proposed and approved, on July 22, 2016 to apply Parks Canada’s “Guiding Principles and Operational Policies” (Section 3.2.3). The plan states as well: “Ensure that threats posed by mountain pine beetle to Jasper townsite and visitors coming to Jasper are mitigated to the extent possible.” The total failure of Parks Canada to put strategies in place to reduce the wildfire risk on Pyramid Bench as planned for Fall 2017 is simply unacceptable. We most definitely need more than one plan that is ready to go at any given time when you consider the speed with which this disease is spreading around our town and throughout the park.
These two gentlemen also agreed on the importance of “educating”, “informing” and “ensuring” that the public understands the state of the [mountain pine beetle] as well as the actions that should be taken by Park Canada to neutralize the situation: “Parks Canada will continue to contribute to visitor, Jasper residents, and adjacent—
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I'm just checking in on the time. For how many minutes have we been in this meeting?
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
It's been 70 minutes, and the Conservatives are urging us to go faster on the study. Is that right? They would like to get to it as quickly as possible.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
It's debate.
I don't know if that's exactly what they're saying, but anyway—
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
I just wanted to make sure that Mr. Mazier could catch his voice a bit. That's all.
Liberal