Environment Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're going to have to stop there, because the six minutes are up.

Mr. van Koeverden is next.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to our ambassador for being here today.

I apologize for what you've already had to endure, and I hope the members on this committee can conduct themselves with a bit more decorum when addressing you. The work you do is important and valuable, and I, for one, thank you for what you're doing to address climate change on the global scale.

We'll hear often that climate change is something Canada can't solve on its own, and we know that. We know we need to work with our partner countries. Canada's a small country. Our emissions are outsized with respect to our population, but they're certainly significant. We're also an oil-producing nation, so we have a strong leadership role to play, and I thank you for playing that leadership role on the world stage.

We know there are massive business opportunities on the global scale for Canada, as well as for foreign direct investment in our country. Can you talk to us about some of your office's work with respect to Canadian businesses operating in other countries?

I'd love a bit of perspective or insight on those 17 member countries you've helped to recruit in the effort to lower emissions. I'd love to hear a bit more about the three you recently recruited at the most recent COP.

Ambassador Stewart, from our side, thank you again for your extraordinary work and efforts.

[Catherine Stewart]

With regard to your first point, because we are an oil- and gas-producing nation, it's important to be out engaging in the world and talking about how Canada is helping to drive clean solutions. We want to make sure that Canadian workers and businesses can benefit from the energy transition that's happening. A lot of investors and individuals are seeking cleaner solutions, so it's important that we're at the table, describing what we are doing to take ambitious action.

I'll just give you some examples on methane. Being an oil- and gas-producing nation, we are doing a lot to reduce emissions in methane in the oil and gas sector, with waste and landfill, and also in the agricultural sector. Countries are genuinely interested in hearing about our regulations, which we've put out in draft form, to reduce methane in the oil and gas sector by 75% by 2030.

Canadian companies have a big opportunity, because they are already reducing emissions and advancing innovative technologies to be able to do that, so it's important that we can talk about how we are reducing emissions and putting in place regulations to enable innovation in Canada, and putting in place a carbon price, which also enables innovation.

Companies are being recognized internationally—like GHGSat, for example, for its ability to detect methane and help companies reduce and capture that methane, because it does have an economic value to it as well.

Another example would be in nuclear energy. It's important for Canada that we're at the table internationally to talk about nuclear energy and the fact that it makes up almost 85% of non-emitting energy in Canada. That's an important draw for a lot of companies that have investors wanting them to seek cleaner solutions. They will now consider Canada more as an option. Our nuclear energy has a lot to offer, and there are a lot of business opportunities as other countries seek cleaner solutions. We have decades of experience in providing safe nuclear energy.

Those are just a couple of examples of areas where it's important to talk about what we are doing to help showcase Canadian innovation.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much.

[Catherine Stewart]

You did ask about the global carbon pricing challenge. I don't know if there's time to speak to that.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

What's the time at, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

There is about a minute and a half.

[Catherine Stewart]

Thank you for that.

We had three new partners join the global carbon pricing challenge at COP29: Uruguay, Finland and Nigeria. This now brings the total to 18 partners and friends who all want to share their experiences in implementing carbon pricing and want to learn from one another. That's what this opportunity is about. It gives that government leadership push and gives that visibility to carbon pricing. Other countries have caught on to this, and they're very interested in sharing experiences.

We've had various events that we've organized, one at COP29 and also one in New York during Climate Week, where we've had interest from the World Trade Organization and from different international organizations that are recognizing the value of this initiative to drive that awareness internationally.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thanks.

Would you characterize our initiatives to lower emissions as a huge economic advantage in Canada?

[Catherine Stewart]

It is, absolutely. I think we want to make sure that Canada is not misunderstood. I think there are countries that think that we really are doing a lot on climate change, so it's important for companies that we talk about what we're doing and how we're doing it. We're inclusive. You know, [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Did we lose the ambassador? Anyway, the time is up.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, that was the end of our six minutes.

[Catherine Stewart]

I'm back. I'm sorry about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're glad you're back with us here, because we lost you for a few seconds.

Madam Pauzé is next.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, everyone, for being here.

Good afternoon, Ms. Stewart. It's been a long time since we crossed paths. I'm pleased to see you.

I'll begin my remarks by talking about Canada's poor performance in the fight against climate change. My colleague Mr. Mazier said earlier that, according to the Germanwatch environmental organization, Canada ranks 62nd out of 67 countries. Therefore, Canada can't boast.

You have international knowledge. You know that the United Kingdom's advisory committee on climate change produces a report every month. It recommends changes, the report is published, the work is publicized and there is transparency. Wouldn't that committee be a model for Canada to follow to improve its performance?

[Catherine Stewart]

I would like to turn to Vincent Ngan, who is at the table and can speak to that, please.

[Vincent Ngan, Assistant Deputy Minister, Climate Change Branch, Department of the Environment]

You have asked several times about the Climate Change Performance Index. There are caveats we would like to put forward and share with you.

Number one, that particular report assigns significant weight to renewable energy adoption, energy efficiency and climate policies. China, despite being the world's largest emitter, is doing relatively well in renewable energy, while Canada is not engaging power generation—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Excuse me for interrupting you, Mr. Ngan, but I was referring more specifically to the United Kingdom, because it's a country that can resemble ours, it must be said. I don't understand why we don't draw inspiration from it.

Having said that, I'm going to ask Ms. Stewart another question.

The European Union's greenhouse gas emissions decreased by more than 8% in 2023 compared to the previous year thanks to renewable energy. We're not talking about nuclear energy or anything else. Net greenhouse gas emissions are now 37% below 1990 levels, while GDP has increased by 68% over the same period. This shows the continued decoupling of emissions and economic growth. We can do both. The EU remains on track to meet its commitment to reduce emissions by at least 55% by 2030.

What about in Canada, with the increase in oil sands production?

[Catherine Stewart]

Certainly, when it comes to the U.K., Canada has partnered with the U.K. on many occasions. I would underline the Powering Past Coal Alliance, which Canada and the U.K., at the ministerial level, set up in 2017. It now has over 180 members, including governments, subnational governments, the private sector and investors.

That is an initiative that I feel has helped to gain momentum on the importance of coal phase-out. It contributed greatly to the COP28 outcome, which recognized the importance of phasing out coal.

That's just an example of how Canada has partnered with some key countries around the world to drive ambition. They've also joined us in the global carbon pricing challenge.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Ms. Stewart, I don't want to talk about coal. I know that the coal phase-out agreement was signed when Ms. McKenna was in office.

I'm talking about the increase in oil production in Canada. We know that oil from the oil sands is about the most polluting in the world. So what is the future of this oil in a world where countries would respect the Paris Agreement and therefore have to reduce their oil consumption?

[Catherine Stewart]

When it comes to decoupling, it's important to note that Canada has also decoupled its economic growth from its emissions. We know we have more work to do in the oil and gas sector. The minister has introduced draft regulations to put a cap on oil and gas emissions, as I'm sure this committee knows.

We've also done a lot of work to introduce an assessment framework and guidelines to help eliminate inefficient fossil fuel subsidies. We're also working on a framework right now to reduce public funding for the fossil fuel sector. We have methane regulations in the oil and gas sector, which I've mentioned, with a reduction of 75% by 2030. We also have clean electricity regulations coming forward.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'll stop you there, Ms. Stewart. Let's talk about emission reductions.

It's said that, by 2030, oil and gas sector emissions would be reduced by around 35 % compared to 2019 levels. However, the base year for Canada is 2005, which means that Canada must aim to reduce its emissions by 40% to 45% by 2030 from 2005 levels.

Why are we asking the oil and gas industry to do less by 2030? Why don't we ask it to base itself on 2005 levels, as we do for all other businesses?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Could we have a brief answer, please? You have about 30 seconds, max.

[Megan Nichols, Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment]

Thank you very much.

I would just like to add that Canada's approach to reducing emissions does not assume that every sector has to reduce by exactly the same amount. We recognize that every sector has its own unique situation and challenges. That's why we have a combination of the carbon pricing system, which applies across the economy but includes an industrial pricing system that recognizes that certain sectors are more vulnerable to competitiveness issues and carbon leakage.

Then we also realize—