Environment Committee on Dec. 9th, 2024

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

That will be enough because I'm not an expert on the details of the agreements between the federal government and Lion Electric or other businesses that are in trouble.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

But what about the federal program? Forget the agreement with Lion Electric.

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

Ms. Da Costa, have you looked into that particular program?

[Elsa Da Costa, Director, Office of the Auditor General]

We've examined one of the Canada Infrastructure Bank's programs but haven't looked into the details of those contracts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Collins—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chair, didn't I have a six-minute turn?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No, subsequent turns are two and a half minutes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Will that be the case until the end of the meeting?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

For the NDP and Bloc Québécois, yes. There will be no more six-minute rounds because these are the same witnesses. If we had a second witness panel, there would be more six-minute rounds.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I apologize for the interruption.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's quite all right.

Ms. Collins, go ahead.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, again, to the commissioner.

I wanted to go back to the emissions cap. This feels like one of the key policies that needs to be strengthened and where we need more stringency.

When it comes to the implementation of this policy, we're going to be waiting until 2030 for the first phase. Can you talk about the danger of pushing back this kind of implementation and the urgency and the need for stringency on this policy?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

Implementation is a theme of this year's and last year's reports, as well as our greenhouse gas regulations audit from last year.

When you have a target like 2030 or an interim objective like 2026, it's important that the measure is crystallized sufficiently by the date so that you actually are getting the emissions reductions, as opposed to them just happening at some point in the future.

The problem with delays is that, because these regulations are typically phased in and there's a compliance period and so on, if they're pushed off too far, they might have little effect on 2030, and they'll only realize their benefits after 2030. We had the same conclusion with our two billion trees report. It wasn't really much of a measure to assist with 2030 because it was going to really only reap rewards in the decades to follow.

The timely design and implementation of measures is important, because there's not much time left between now and 2030, and any measure takes time to bear fruit. It's not like flipping a switch. There are phase-in provisions and regulations, for example, and transition provisions, compliance periods and so on. The more slowly each of these measures gets put into place, the more at risk the 2030 target is.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 30 seconds.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. DeMarco, we'll probably only get to this in the next round, but I want to ask you about carbon budgets. Not in your last visit here but the visit before, my colleague Taylor Bachrach discussed carbon budgets with you. I would love to hear about how this could be an effective emissions reduction policy, as the U.K. has done, and about any other lessons learned from the U.K. when it comes to what we could be doing here in Canada.

I will ask again at the next—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, we don't have time for the answer. I don't know if the commissioner wants to produce something in writing. That'll be up to Ms. Collins to ask for if that's what she wants.

Is that what you want?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I would love that, or if we have another chance in this meeting, I'll try to get to it then.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You'll have another chance, so maybe you can leave a couple of minutes for the commissioner when it's your turn next.

Mr. Mazier, go ahead.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Commissioner, the government ripped over 360 pages out of their $8-billion net zero accelerator fund and the contracts. They ripped out 360 pages.

Did the government remove any pages from the contracts before you read them, yes or no?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

My recollection is that my colleague Mr. Blouin last week indicated that we had full access to those documents. I didn't read each of them and all the pages myself, but the team reviewed them, yes.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

There were no pages ripped out when the team reviewed them. Is that correct?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

That's my recollection, but I don't have that team with me here today. I believe he answered something similar to that last week on Monday or whatever day we were here last week. We've been here quite a few times.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, we meet on Mondays and Wednesdays.

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

It was either a Monday or a Wednesday then.