Evidence of meeting #139 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was targets.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Senior Policy Advisor, Manitoba Wildlife Federation
It's incredible. Our organization is 80 years old. We're doing biodiversity pilot projects in our province, and we don't know about any of these projects that are coming down, these bills. We're learning about it second-hand and third-hand. That's why you're on the wrong path. With regard to the way this is going, we're on the wrong path.
We exclude landowners. We exclude hunters and anglers. You're going to create that division, and it's not going to work.
Conservative
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I agree. I don't trust this minister, and I think it's very intentional that he is excluding the people who literally live, work and play on the land, the people I represent here. It's appalling. It goes to show the type of decision-making and how it comes to be.
The attempt here, at the end of the day, is to carve off 30% of the land mass in Canada, which will prevent existing private landowners, hunters and anglers from having the access necessary to participate in these traditional heritage activities, which obviously you, as the Manitoba Wildlife Federation, represent. How do we make sure that the understanding of the land and the understanding of those folks are represented and respected in this legislation?
Senior Policy Advisor, Manitoba Wildlife Federation
They have to be part of the legislation, they have to be legislated to be part of it and everybody has to be at the table. You can't divide based on ethnicity, stature or geographic areas; everybody should be at the table when these bills are being created.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
What would your perspective be? If you could explain it to me, how do the people you represent view biodiversity, and what do they do to enhance it?
Senior Policy Advisor, Manitoba Wildlife Federation
They're passionate about it. I live on 20 acres and manage it for biodiversity. We are running pilot projects trying to create where management areas have been set aside with no management techniques, and we're seeing the biodiversity loss because there's no more management, no more controlled burning and no more grazing, so there is another train of thought.
You can't just set aside large tracts of land and expect biodiversity to happen on its own. It needs to be managed. You have to replicate fires. You have to replicate grazing. You need those disturbances on the landscape to have biodiversity.
Our organizations are on a much different track than how we're being represented.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
No, that sounds like the viewpoint of somebody who actually lives, works and plays on land, not in an ivory tower law office. If we gave you a million dollars to enhance biodiversity, how would you spend it versus how I think others might?
Senior Policy Advisor, Manitoba Wildlife Federation
You have to meet with the landowners, first of all. You can't make decisions in Ottawa or Geneva or somewhere else without speaking to the landowners. The landowners are the true stewards; they're there every single day. Hunters and anglers are on the landscape every single day, and they see biodiversity loss. They're the greatest protectors of nature.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Here is one of the things that really bothered me when this government came into power in 2015. I used to work for a fellow named Robert Sopuck, one of the strongest, most passionate conservationists in the country. I would say he single-handedly saved more fish through his development of the recreational fisheries conservation partnerships program, which I assume your members or individuals took part in—
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
—and it was cancelled.
Could you explain to me your understanding of the program?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We're out of time, unfortunately, but yes, Mr. Sopuck was a good MP.
We'll go now to Mr. Ali.
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
My question is for Mr. Ginsberg.
Halting and reversing biodiversity loss is one of the great challenges of our time, but if we get it right, the transition to a nature-positive Canada will have profoundly positive impacts on our collective well-being, economic prosperity and quality of life now and into the future.
Can you tell the members why Bill C-73 is crucial? Why must it pass?
Director, Ecojustice Environmental Law Clinic, Ecojustice
It is absolutely crucial that if we are aiming for the end state you describe, which I completely agree with, we have to carefully plan and make sure we understand the steps to get there.
In the past, we have not done that, and while individual progress may have been helpful, we have not planned broadly or coherently to achieve our desired end state. That's why we need what I have described as a made-in-Canada plan respecting and implementing our international agreements, but adapting them for the Canadian scene.
Let me say in response to the exchange with my co-panellists here, just to make sure we're not creating division where none exist, I don't say and none of our agreements say that conservation and that end state you described preclude the kinds of activities that the members of my co-panellist group here enjoy and promote. In fact, I think those people should be at the table; nothing in the bill precludes that, and that's part of what a made-in-Canada approach means.
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Thank you.
I have a follow-up question.
This bill is currently at second reading in the House of Commons. Do you think this bill should be expedited in the House of Commons at second reading?
Director, Ecojustice Environmental Law Clinic, Ecojustice
Absolutely; nature cannot wait.
Staff Lawyer, West Coast Environmental Law Association
One of the barriers to effective biodiversity protection in Canada has been.... I mentioned all of these international instruments that we're a party to and the myriad of federal laws, programs and regulations, but there's no one unifying place where we can see whether and how they're working together, and then what gaps there are. An effective Bill C-73, or nature accountability law, would be that place.
Once we get that detail fleshed out for what has to be in national biodiversity strategies and action plans, we'll be able to have a comprehensive picture of what we have in place to protect nature and what the main drivers are of biodiversity loss that we have to contend with. Like I said, what are the gaps that need to be filled? We have all of these different fragments, but right now, we don't have that one holding place to see how they're all working together and whether we need additional resources to protect nature.
That's really what we see this bill being able to do.
Liberal
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
I'd like to hear from both of you on Canada's nature strategy, which was released in June 2024.
Can you tell us about it? How does it tie in with this bill, and why is it so important?
Staff Lawyer, West Coast Environmental Law Association
Under the Convention on Biological Diversity, as it would be prescribed by Bill C-73, the federal government has to produce biodiversity strategies and action plans. What we've seen lacking to date is enough detail on those strategies and plans to actually provide us with, as I called it earlier, the "road map" that we need.
The 2030 nature strategy is much more detailed in terms of a strategy, but you'll notice in the title that it's just the 2030 nature strategy. We don't yet have the accompanying action plan. What I see our proposed amendments doing, since they prescribe the actual contents of strategies and plans, is requiring the federal government to build on this fairly strong 2030 strategy to come up with the action plan for how we're actually going to put that strategy into action.
Director, Ecojustice Environmental Law Clinic, Ecojustice
Thank you.
I'll just add that the government strategy around the international targets recognizes the key drivers of biodiversity loss, the scale and urgency of the crisis in Canada and the need for transformative change and a whole-of-government approach. We would like to see those drivers put into law so that we can be accountable for them. Understand what the important drivers are, where we want to be and where we are now.
What do we need to do to get there? That's the key.