Environment Committee on May 3rd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Good morning, honourable members.

I welcome you to the committee, Mr. Simard. This is not your first time with us, is that right? Yes? You may have been with us during the last Parliament.

The minister is with us as well. Welcome, Minister.

Before we begin, I would ask the members of the committee if they agree with the budget for the briefing of the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development, the budget for the review of the main estimates and the budget for the meeting on the emissions reduction plan. I imagine that everyone agrees with those three budgets and that there is no need to debate them. Everyone agrees.

I would also like to ask the committee one thing. I am told that we can continue until 1:30 p.m. I imagine there's no objection to us continuing past the time when the meeting normally ends.

I now invite the minister to give us his opening remarks.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, are we dividing up the time? Are we doing different rounds today?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I believe it's one round. We're doing one round.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Is the minister here for the full time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

He's here for one hour, I believe.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

It's one hour, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Oh, it's for the full time. I'm told he's here for the full time.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Okay. My understanding is that we'll have different witnesses in the first half and the second half and that the Impact Assessment Agency will not be here for the second half. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Witnesses are here for the whole time.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

All of them are?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Okay.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

The floor is yours, Minister.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am pleased to be here with you today to discuss the 2022‑23 main estimates for Environment and Climate Change Canada, the Parks Canada Agency and the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada.

With us today are Paul Halucha, associate deputy minister of Environment and Climate Change Canada; Ron Hallman, president and CEO of the Parks Canada Agency; and Terence Hubbard, president of the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada, as well as other officials.

I am joining you from Montreal on the traditional territory of the Mohawk and other Haudenosaunee people.

The critical responsibilities under my portfolio are vital to ensuring our environment, economy and people are healthy and thriving. Our success relies on direct and meaningful engagement with indigenous peoples. These aren't just words. I feel very strongly about our relationship with indigenous peoples.

At the same time, strong leadership, broad and inclusive collaboration, and evidence-based decisions informed by traditional knowledge and transparency are all core to delivering on the ambitious goals and priorities that we have set to help ensure a more resilient, equitable and prosperous Canada.

We will begin with Environment and Climate Change Canada.

Since we last met, the department’s focus has remained primarily on working with Canadians to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and pollutants, and adapt to the changing climate while protecting and conserving nature.

One of the most significant steps forward is the 2030 emissions reduction plan for clean air and a strong economy, which I introduced with the Prime Minister and Minister Wilkinson on March 29, 2022.

The plan provides a credible road map to enable Canada to achieve 40% to 45% below 2005 levels by 2030, and it reflects input from provinces, territories, indigenous peoples, the net-zero advisory body, stakeholders and more than 28,000 interested Canadians.

We've also continued working to ensure our waters are healthy and clean, to strengthen environmental protection, and to provide weather and environmental information that will help Canadians make informed decisions on health and safety.

All of this important work is reflected in the department’s 2022‑23 main estimates, which present approximately $2 billion in total spending. This is a net increase of almost $270 million over the main estimates total expenditures last fiscal year.

The major requests include over $478 million for taking action on clean growth and climate change. This includes more than $20.5 million in grants and over $332 million in contributions.

These numbers include $2.5 million in grants and more than $291 million in contributions in support of the low-carbon economy fund, which supports projects that help to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. There are also over $10 million in grants and $16 million in contributions to support Canada's international climate finance program. This funding helps developing countries in their transition to a sustainable, low-carbon and nature-positive economy.

As you know, Mr. Chair, nature and climate are inextricably linked. This is why we have set a target—to conserve a quarter of lands, inland waters and oceans by 2025 and 30% of each by 2030.

This is why these estimates also include more than $609 million to conserve nature, including almost $76 million in contributions and $289 million in contributions to support the Canada nature fund.

In addition, Mr. Chair, there are also more than $379 million to prevent and manage pollution. This includes contributions of more than $27 million to support initiatives, such as the Great Lakes action plan and engagement with indigenous partners to establish the Canada water agency.

Plastic pollution also remains a high priority. Public consultations for the proposed single-use plastic prohibition regulations ended this March, and I expect that we will be seeing them come into force soon. There are also almost $282 million toward predicting weather and environmental conditions, plus over $219 million for internal services.

Let's turn to the Parks Canada Agency.

The agency is responsible for protecting Canada's natural and cultural heritage and presenting nationally significant examples. It shares the stories of these treasured places and works with indigenous communities to provide opportunities for them to share their stories, cultures and contributions.

Parks Canada's 2022‑23 main estimates are currently $988 million. This represents a decrease of $140.5 million over last year, primarily due to the reduction in time-limited funding for infrastructure projects at Parks Canada administered places.

That said, the agency is developing a long-term plan for the management and sustainability of its infrastructure. Funding in the main estimates helps Parks Canada deliver its important work at 171 national historic sites, 47 national parks, five national marine conservation areas and one national urban park.

It also supports Parks Canada's commitment to a system of national heritage places that recognizes and honours the historic and contemporary contributions of indigenous peoples, their stories and their cultures, as well as the special relationships indigenous peoples have with ancestral lands and waters.

It will also support Parks Canada's work with partners to consider new national parks, national marine conservation areas and cultural landscapes, as well as the creation or enhancement of urban parks and ecological corridors. These important measures will contribute to Canada's commitment, as I mentioned earlier, to protect and conserve a quarter of lands, inland waters and oceans in Canada by 2025, and 30% of each by 2030.

Increases in funding support a number of priorities, such as an enhanced nature legacy to respond to the biodiversity crisis and pressures for the sustainable recovery and well-being of Canadians; establishing and managing marine protected areas in support of Canada's new marine conservation targets; enhancing wildfire resilience, prevention and response in Parks Canada-administered protected areas; and the Wood Buffalo National Park world heritage site action plan. We will strengthen the management of the park in collaboration with indigenous partners and address imminent threats to wood bison in Wood Buffalo National Park.

There is also funding for an Inuit impact and benefit agreement for the Wrecks of HMS Erebus and HMS Terror National Historic Site and advancing archeology and conservation of the wrecks. There will be negotiation with indigenous peoples to implement rights and advance reconciliation while reducing litigation risks, building partnerships and advancing mutual priorities.

There is additional assistance for youth through the youth employment and skills strategy, and a national campaign to promote protection of Canada's heritage places and visitation to Parks Canada-administered places to support a safe and sustainable tourism recovery.

Mr. Chair, let’s turn to the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada, which is responsible for conducting impact assessments under the Impact Assessment Act, which came into force in August 2019.

The agency continues to complete project assessments under the former Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, 2012. Its 2022‑23 main estimates total $80 million. This represents a small increase of $1 million over last year and is primarily due to an increase in operating funds and an increase in the statutory vote for employee benefits programs.

This funding supports the agency's ongoing delivery of high-quality assessments to support government decisions on major projects across the country. This ensures that the agency can deliver what the Impact Assessment Act requires—complete, robust and timely assessments that examine the positive and negative environmental, economic, social, health and gender effects of designated projects.

It will also ensure that the assessments are based on science and indigenous knowledge, protect our rich natural environment, respect the rights of indigenous peoples and support our natural resources sector.

As well, it will support meaningful public and indigenous consultations, including important capacity building funding programs for participants and indigenous peoples.

This year marks the last year of the five-year, $258.6‑million budget that was originally allocated to the newly established agency. Budget 2022 commits to considering the new funding requirements of the agency and of other relevant departments as part of the fall 2022 economic and fiscal update.

Mr. Chair, I will stop here in the hope that this summary provides an overview of the 2022‑23 main estimates.

I would be happy to answer any questions from the members of the committee.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Minister.

Before we begin with questions, I would like to ask that all the witnesses who are joining us virtually turn on their cameras, as we want to see them. I would also note to the members of the committee that, 15 minutes before the end of the meeting, at 1:15 p.m., we will need to vote on the budgets.

Mr. Seeback, you have six minutes.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you talked in your opening statement about your credible road map to achieve greenhouse gas emissions 40% to 45% below 2005 levels by 2030, and you've talked both publicly and in the House of Commons with pride about the 8.9% greenhouse gas reductions from 2019 to 2020. Is that 8.9% reduction that occurred in 2020 part of your road map to 2030?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you for the question, MP Seeback.

I have not spoken at great length about the 2020 emissions reductions numbers that we saw in the last inventory. I have spoken about the 2019 numbers simply because we know that 2020, because of the pandemic, was an anomaly. What I have pointed out is that in 2019, oil production alone went up by a little more than 700,000 barrels that year, yet emissions declined in 2019.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You recognize that the 8.9% reduction in 2020 that your government talks about came as an effect of a 5.4% contraction of GDP?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I have asked the experts in the department several times about this. I think we have some of them with us on the line who could give you a more specific answer as to whether or not we were able to make a determination to what extent the emissions reduction in 2020 was a result of the economic slowdown from the pandemic and to what extent it was a result of measures that we have been deploying in Canada over the last few years. What the experts tell me is that it is very difficult to discern what comes from the plan and what would be more pandemic-related.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

If they do that, I'd be happy if they tabled that with the committee, because if the plan is that to get an 8.9% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, we have a 5.4% contraction in GDP, you'd agree with me that that's not a great plan.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I would invite you to look at the emissions reduction plan, where we make no such linkages between emissions reduction and economic development.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Right, so if a plan is reducing GDP significantly by 5.4%, if that's the result of the measures you're taking, then you would agree that it's not a great result for Canadians.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Again, as I said, our plan is based on a number of different data sources, including projections of economic growth. Oil and gas production will increase, according to the Canada Energy Regulator, between now and 2030, and despite that, our plan shows very credibly how we can reduce our emissions by between 40% and 45% by 2030.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Minister, a big part of your reduction to achieve 40% to 45% is going to be based on EVs and there being more electricity in the Canadian electricity grid. RBC did a report on the transition to net zero and estimates that we're going to have to roughly double our electricity supply in order to meet our emission reduction targets. Do you agree with that assessment?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

When you say a “big part” of our plan, can you define “big”, maybe in percentage terms?