Environment Committee on Sept. 27th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 30 seconds for a comment, I guess.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Very quickly, I want to ask the other witnesses if they have looked for any funding from the clean growth hub. I will throw that out there for anyone to answer.

[Zsombor Burany]

We didn't qualify.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That just about covers the time.

We will go to Madame Pauzé for two minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Lambert-Chan, thank you for being with us today. I know you have an event in October at the Montréal Science Centre. Can you tell us about the potential your organization is developing with youth in terms of training?

I'm always interested in the development of the workforce and how to make the most of a fair transition for everyone. I think you have some good ideas on that. Could you share them?

[Camille Lambert-Chan]

Yes, absolutely.

Thank you for talking about this, because labour is probably the most important issue for all our businesses at this time. The event you mentioned for October is known as En Route 2022. It's a networking event for graduates and jobseekers, and the purpose of the event is to promote the electric and smart transportation sector and fill many vacant positions.

The workforce issue is important because we're talking about a transition and training programs that often don't exist, either at vocational training centres, universities or CÉGEPs. A lot of the focus is on engineering training, but it's also important to keep in mind the technical component behind that. That's where there are major issues for the growth of our businesses.

The issue of financing for start-ups was mentioned earlier, but there's also the issue of the workforce. This event will bring together about 1,000 people at the Montréal Science Centre to present different career paths and jobs that are currently less well known.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

With the previous panel of witnesses, we talked a lot about the lack of networking and coordination between people because too much work is done in silos.

Has the response been good?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, your speaking time has ended, Ms. Pauzé.

You may answer yes or no, Ms. Lambert-Chan.

[Camille Lambert-Chan]

The response has been good, but it's still a lot of work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you to both of you.

Ms. Collins, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Dr. Moran, you talked a little bit about what makes Solid Carbon different from other negative emissions technologies and why storing carbon in the subsea floor is so promising. What other opportunities do you see for Canada in the blue economy?

[Dr. Kathryn Moran]

There are many. In some of the areas, we're working with SMEs in Canada. For example, we've worked with JASCO and other companies in Atlantic Canada that are developing very high-quality sensor systems like hydrophones. In working with them, we have been able to help them develop basically the capturing of information about ocean noise so that it can be used in real time to make policy decisions on the fly—for example, about moving shipping lanes to protect southern resident killer whales, or just plain old reducing noise. That's one of the examples that are really important for the future. Everywhere in the ocean we need to begin to reduce that impact on marine mammals in the country.

In addition to that, as I mentioned, there is the technology to forecast inundation. That kind of technology and know-how need to be exported so they can be used in many of these small island states in the world where they don't have the know-how to forecast and make plans as to how they need to either retreat or put in protections for their work.

We're also looking at new ways of observing the ocean for expanding the marine protected areas and monitoring, and that is through autonomous vehicles that then would be hosting sensor systems that are built and marketed by Canadian SMEs. I would say Canada has the best collection of ocean sensor technology companies in the world, so through that work we can be showcasing those sensor systems to help market them, because their market is mainly international.

I think I've touched on a few.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Mazier, you have three minutes and 45 seconds.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Burany, if Canada wants to be the hub of clean-tech investment and commercialization, how important is it for the government to create an investment-friendly business environment?

[Zsombor Burany]

I think it's critical. You need the investment environment, and you also need to establish a leadership role in the regulatory process. Once you've established the path for that, you will see an influx of innovators, not an exit of innovators.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

You commented before about your experience with the clean growth fund and how you were denied that. Can you expand on that, or tell us the story of your experience with the clean growth fund?

[Zsombor Burany]

Yes. The problem is that the type of technology we're doing isn't a commercial technology. Right now, it's primarily research. After the research, there will be commercialization. With commercialization, we'd be getting carbon credits. It doesn't fit neatly into the box you need to tick off.

I think that's a problem everybody is facing. We're in a new industry and it doesn't fit perfectly in the box. Everybody agrees it should be funded, no question about that. The problem is that nobody has the capability to do it.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Would you say that's a perfect example of the government not being supportive of the business environment?

[Zsombor Burany]

It's just not flexible; that's the problem. They pass down mandates that have a very specific path to follow, and if you're just outside of it by one inch, you don't qualify.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

You mentioned a few different points about reducing red tape. There are some suggestions on policy change, but give me the top one or two things we could do to get commercialization going here in Canada, in clean tech.

[Zsombor Burany]

I think you could change the problem overnight by just restructuring the Infrastructure Bank. I've had a lot of experience with these guys. They're great guys; there's nothing wrong with them. The problem is that they cannot change the way they do their lending because of the policies in place. It's onerous for these types of businesses to meet the requirements they need to meet. I think we need to change the Infrastructure Bank. I have an open letter I can share with you.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

If you could please forward it to the committee, that would be great.

Mr. Rochette, do you have anything to add to this conversation?

[André Rochette]

For green businesses to take off, I think we need the right context, the right policies and the right regulations. What we see, right now, is the world going to New York because of Local Law 97. We used to compete against local companies, and now we see companies from Norway going to New York. We see carbon capture companies going to New York because of the right context. They know that context is going to create opportunities.

I would say, again, that outcome-based regulations geared toward the long term set up the right context for these technology companies to thrive.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Mr. Rochette, it's my understanding that your organization works to design and implement energy retrofits for buildings. Do you have any idea how many emissions could be reduced through retrofits in Canada?

[André Rochette]

I don't, sorry. I would say that there are similar buildings in Europe. We go to Europe and we visit their buildings. In many buildings, we see the energy intensity is halved, and I think that's achievable. Amory Lovins and the Rocky Mountain Institute have been saying over and over, for 30 years, that with better integrative design and a better context, we can basically reduce energy consumption by 50% or more.