Environment Committee on Oct. 18th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry, but you only have time for a comment.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I'll just say that a theme that's clearly emerging is the need for an overarching industrial strategy, and I hope we get a further opportunity to talk about that.

[Luisa Da Silva]

Absolutely. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much on that.

We're going to suspend. We will start again exactly 10 minutes after the vote result is announced, and we'll see how far we get. We won't have a lot of time left, but we'll see what we can do.

I suspend until 10 minutes after the vote result is announced.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're resuming the meeting.

We had to reduce the witnesses' time to a minute and a half, which will give us time for a four‑minute round of questions. That'll take us to 5:30 p.m. exactly.

We usually extend the meeting, but we can't today for technical reasons.

Mr. Kirkpatrick, could you give your opening remarks in a minute and a half?

[Jamie Kirkpatrick, Senior Program Manager, Blue Green Canada]

I will do my best. Thank you for having me.

My name is Jamie Kirkpatrick. I'm with Blue Green Canada, and I'm joining you from Saskatoon and Treaty No. 6 territory.

My organization, Blue Green Canada, was founded in 2008, when Canada's prominent environmental and union organizations agreed that we can create good jobs, maintain good jobs and have a healthy environment across the country. We can be making and building renewable energy, using energy more efficiently, decarbonizing manufacturing and electrifying transportation. We can do that while protecting communities and involving workers in developing these technologies.

We're going to talk a lot about clean technologies and hear about the shiny details of those things. I've heard the previous witnesses speak about ways to reduce the CO2 per barrel of oil and improvements in nuclear technology, but I haven't seen anyone from workers' organizations, or anyone related to the actual doing of these things, present to this committee.

I would encourage the committee in future rounds, if possible, to make an effort to hear from workers who are in those sectors today, and those who will be making the transitions to using the clean technologies we're talking about.

The workers who are in the oil and gas sector now always hear about how important the sector is, but they see the job decline per barrel of oil. They see profits increasing, but not jobs increasing in their sector. Automation takes away those jobs, and that's clean technology in some cases.

Important considerations are needed for the workers of today, and the communities that they're in, through just transition programming and planning—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much. You have made the point very succinctly.

We'll go now to Mr. Duerr, who's here with Mr. Spady from Carbon Connect International.

Mr. Duerr, you have 90 seconds.

[Al Duerr, Partner, Carbon Connect International Inc.]

Thank you very much for this opportunity to appear before the committee and discuss Carbon Connect International's implementation of clean technologies in Canada.

[Darcy Spady, Managing Partner, Carbon Connect International Inc.]

Last year, under contract with the Alberta department of environment, we designed and implemented a baseline measurement program and a technology implementation program funded entirely by the carbon levy of large emitters in Alberta.

We provided program management for over 80 emissions reductions projects, real projects in Alberta. For the sum of $40 million, 15.4 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent were saved. These projects used off-the-shelf technology and existing service providers, and created clean-tech jobs. Many of these were in small communities. We did that.

[Al Duerr]

One of the big issues is, how do we continue this momentum? One of the things we strongly encourage the federal government to do is to continue to fund the implementation of methane emissions reduction technologies and take advantage of programs that are occurring across the country that are working right now. Just top those programs up.

The other key thing is, given that Canada is a world leader in methane emissions policy, regulatory and implementation, and has been that way for a long time, let's take that to the world. Let's internationalize it. Get our technologies into other jurisdictions and help elevate the industry around the world, not just in Canada. We've done it in Canada. We're continuing to do it. Taking that internationally, we can do that, and with a lot of existing resources, if we do it with our international financial—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you. I'm loath to interrupt the former mayor of Calgary, but it's a tough job I have.

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Létourneau of Kruger Energy for a minute and a half.

[Jean Létourneau, Vice-President, Community Solar and Strategic Initiatives, Kruger Energy Inc.]

Thank you for inviting me to appear before your committee.

Founded in 2004, Kruger Energy is a wholly owned subsidiary of Kruger Inc., a privately held company that is headquartered in Montreal and has been in business in Quebec for over 115 years. The company is owned by the Kruger family, with Joseph Kruger II, the founder's grandson, at the helm.

Kruger Energy has been in business since 2004 and specializes in developing and managing renewable energy power plants. We manage and operate 42 production sites, from wind, energy storage and solar power facilities to biomass cogeneration plants with a total capacity of over 542 megawatts.

My name is Jean Létourneau, and I am vice-president of Strategic Initiatives and Community Solar Development. I am currently leading the development of the community solar subsidiary in the Northeast United States and 20 projects at the development stage. I'm also leading the development of our first solar project in Guatemala. Lastly, I'm also responsible for a pilot project.

The three key factors that I would like to talk to you about are the long-term predictability of renewable electricity needs, the need to avoid stop and go approaches; engagement and integration of host communities, including first nations communities, and social acceptability; and a suitable and competitive environment for each of the renewable energy technologies.

Thank you for listening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. Létourneau.

We'll go now to Mr. Graeme Millen, from the Silicon Valley Bank, for 90 seconds.

[Graeme Millen, Managing Director, Climate Technology and Sustainability, Canada Branch, Silicon Valley Bank]

Awesome. Thanks, everyone, for having me.

My name is Graeme Millen. I am the managing director of climate tech and sustainability for Silicon Valley Bank in Canada, where I lead SVB's efforts to support and nurture the growth and success of Canadian clean-tech companies.

Prior to working with SVB, I dedicated over a dozen years to the financing, building and operating of clean-tech companies and clean energy projects.

For those who don't know, SVB was established about 40 years ago to be the financial partner for the technology innovation ecosystem. We now bank more than 40,000 tech companies globally, including 50% of all VC-backed companies in the United States, as well as more than 3,000 venture capital and private equity funds themselves. As a result, we have a pretty unique front-row seat at the intersection of innovation and capital.

SVB has been committed to supporting Canadian tech companies for the better part of 20 years, culminating in successfully receiving our Canadian banking licence in 2019. We now have a team of 50 across Canada, backed by a global team of 6,500 people.

The global and Canadian venture capital markets have been extraordinarily active in recent years, with a record $15 billion deployed by venture capital funds into Canadian tech companies in 2021. Despite current market volatility, the Canadian and global tech market remains resilient and well capitalized, with $7 billion of new investment already in 2022 in Canada. North American venture capital reserves sit at a staggering record of over $270 billion.

Trusted programs like SDTC, IRAP and SR and ED have been mainstays of enabling the development and early demonstration of critical technologies, particularly in clean tech. However, there remain two critical drivers to support the clean-tech sector's ability to meet our climate objectives while ensuring we build a robust, competitive economy. First, access to capital—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Okay. We have time for one four-minute round, but really, four minutes maximum.

We'll start with Mr. Dreeshen.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses. Hopefully you can send in some more information if you feel you didn't have quite enough time.

Canada has some amazing entrepreneurs. Canadians care about our water. They care about our land. They care about the air, and they expect everybody to treat our amazing resources responsibly. In order to do that, as I have said many times, we have to make sure we measure any kinds of projects, or anything we do, from the first shovel that we use to dig something up to the last shovel to cover it up. I think that's really what's important.

Again, with Carbon Connect, you're talking about those metrics, and that's what's critical. Not only that, but you're talking about how the rest of the world can benefit from that great technology and the entrepreneurs we have.

I'm wondering if you could take it from that perspective and discuss how managing those metrics is important and how we fit in on the global scale.

[Darcy Spady]

In 2018 and for the year and a half on each side of it—so a three-year term—I was the international president of the Society of Petroleum Engineers. I've travelled to 49 different countries in about 75 visits, and I can guarantee you that the Canadian system and the policy we've had in place for 15 years is the best.

There are very clear metrics in the world, and we follow them. OGMP 2.0 is one. We're there, and the rest of the world is not. How we do it and how we influence the cradle to grave, the shovel to bury, is that we have our good practices shown throughout the world, and people are asking for it. We just need to be there. We need to be there with the trade commissioners. We need to be there backed by the World Bank and the African Development Bank—the IFIs—with Canadian dollars already in those banks. We need to be there globally to show that if they do what we do, they will be meeting and exceeding the global UN standards for their methane reduction.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you.

To that same point, we talk about greenhouse gases. Whether they be water vapour, methane or carbon dioxide, all of those things are being measured. When we're talking about methane, the intensity is something that I heard you say in your discussion was most critical.

Can you give us an idea of some of the methane collection or projects you're aware of and things we are doing through funding?

[Darcy Spady]

I'll start, and I'll probably let Al finish.

In the world, nobody measures. We measure in Canada. The Americans like to talk about it and the Europeans like to estimate it, but we measure it, and we need to talk about that globally.

I'll shut down. Al, you go.

[Al Duerr]

It really is critical. We get lectured a lot. In the past, we were lectured a lot by the European Union about how terrible it was in Canada, with dirty oil and all of those things. We all have a way to go to improve everything we're doing here, but we also found at the same time that they were offshoring into Russia and into jurisdictions that didn't have any regulation. If we do anything at all, that's one of the things to bring up to elevate the whole industry.

We're doing it in Canada, but the biggest single impact we can have is if we can take this and help elevate the industry in the rest of the world. That takes resources, but a lot of these countries—especially developing countries—don't have the resources to do things like the baseline work that we're doing in Alberta and the kind of work that's being done here. Canada could be a major source of opportunity for them just in taking our regulatory environment, which is well developed.

Again, nothing's perfect here, but compared to everywhere else in the world, we're doing a good job. We should be really proud of that and leverage it internationally.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

We'll go now to Ms. Thompson.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses. I'm so sorry it's short. I was looking forward to this.

I'll start with you, Mr. Millen. Could you speak please to the role the federal government can play as a convenor in bringing that venture capital investment to industry?

[Graeme Millen]

One of the good things is that the federal government's already doing a pretty good job of leveraging private capital through programs like SDTC, IRAP, SR and ED, and SIF, for example. These are all fantastic programs, which are not only enabling the de-risking of some early stage technologies—which is being matched with private venture capital—but also attracting international capital into these companies.

For context, 50% of all venture capital rounds in Canada now have international participation, primarily from the U.S., of course. I think in many cases, it's because they're seeing that their dollars going into this business can go significantly further than if they put them into other jurisdictions.

One of the conversations that comes up commonly, in this committee and elsewhere, is what happens when technology companies have capital-intensive infrastructure they need to deploy. One of the tools we've seen deployed with massive success in the U.S., as an example, is investment tax credits. I'm aware that's a topic that's been discussed ad nauseam in this committee. Those are other tools that can further incentivize project development and more capital-intensive technology deployments, particularly.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

If I may, I'll switch to Carbon Connect and either one of you gentlemen. You've already spoken to this, but could you provide more detail on Canada's role as a global leader in the clean-tech economy?

[Darcy Spady]

Canada is an understated global leader, and this is our problem as Canadians. We want the energy transition to happen. We want to go to renewables. It is absolutely going to happen, but we can lead the way as a resource nation with the best technology. In specific clean-tech stuff—not just policy and consultancy—we also lead out there.

I'll let Al speak to that.