Evidence of meeting #33 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was parks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
October 28th, 2022 / 2:45 p.m.
City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor
It's because everything has opened up to a policy that's based on negotiation, and there's no concrete—
Liberal
City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor
But there's also legislation involved. If we allow legislation to be involved, it eliminates all that ambiguity. It eliminates all that potential negotiation, not knowing the process, and what it would look like moving forward.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Couldn't you look back to the process that we used for the Rouge National Urban Park? There was a process that took place by Parks Canada.
City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor
But that also included legislation, right? Moving forward with Bill C-248 removes all that ambiguity, and it moves us forward to where we all want to go without any ambiguity. Everyone knows what's going on, how it's going to play out and what it will look like for decades to come.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
But this bill just outlines the parameters of the boundaries of the park, and it becomes part of the Canada National Parks Act. How does that address your concerns about the process?
City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor
Once it moves under Parks Canada, everyone knows that emblem and everyone knows that logo. We know what that entails moving forward. We know it locally with Point Pelee. Our fear is, again, that having essentially the status quo, it would just be called a national urban park. Moving it under Parks Canada rapidly through legislation removes all those concerns and allows us to move forward relatively quickly.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Parks Canada spoke earlier in this hearing today, so you'd be working with the same people in Parks Canada on the same process, but you're basically saying you don't trust that it would happen unless this legislation is in place. Is that what I'm hearing?
City Councillor, Ward 1, City of Windsor
I don't know what that process entails. I don't know what the end outcome could be. With legislation, I do.
Liberal
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Since we lost the connection and it came back, I will ask the same question. However, in listening to Chief Duckworth, I wondered whether the choice to go to the federal side would allow this co‑management with Chief Duckworth and her representatives. Would this not go faster—I get the sense that people want to proceed quickly to protect and expand this park—on the provincial or municipal side of things?
Caldwell First Nation
Thank you for that question.
As you know, first nations are federally governed. We fall under the federal government. We do not fall under the provincial government or a municipality.
Federally, we have a great relationship with Point Pelee. We do a lot of work with Point Pelee. So does Walpole, our sister nation. We meet together. I feel that we need this bill. I feel that if we don't get the framework—get the bill legislatively done—it will just sit there, and then it's nothing.
I heard you say that it would be great to let a longer time go by for consultation. Then you leave it up to the park, to their schedule and how busy they are. Are they motivated, knowing this park could eat up some funds? That's what I've heard.
I hope the federal government can allow these parks to happen. They will be funded in the manner they need to be. This isn't the first co-managed park. I wish I had all the time in the world to talk to you about it, along with my friend Ms. Sumner, but I don't. She's a great ally, if you ever need information.
Meegwetch.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to bring Ms. Sumner in on this.
Those have been excellent questions, and I'd like your opinion because of your experience with setting up the Rouge and other parks, and with your work going on now.
Executive Director, Wildlands League
Rouge National Urban Park was established by legislation, which guaranteed ecological integrity. It starts from that point; then you do your management plan.
That's what Windsor is asking for. They're asking for legislation that guarantees ecological integrity. While it is an amendment to the geography, it would be added to the Canada National Parks Act, which guarantees ecological integrity. That's the starting point. Then you do your management plan.
The two processes are not the same. Right now, what Parks Canada is promising is policy. There's no guarantee. As the city councillor from Windsor referenced, we don't know what comes out of that process. Right now, what we do know is that if you get an amendment to the Canada National Parks Act, you get ecological integrity. Then your management plan is written with that as its governing principle, just like Rouge's was. They want a similar process to that of Rouge. They're just not asking to create a separate body of legislation.
I can tell you all the reasons that had to be done. It was a very complex landscape, where there wasn't this unanimity of agreement; there was actually great division. Separate legislation was the only way to create that unanimity.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
What makes this opportunity unique is that we have so many partners: the City of Windsor, Caldwell First Nation, Friends of Ojibway Prairie and the amazing work they've done, you, and many others. There's the Unifor environment committee. I could go on and on. We have that kind of consensus.
The Rouge is very special, but the drafters of the bill, when they looked at it, told us that this was the best way to go for everything.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Okay. Thank you very much.
Mr. McLean, you have four minutes.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much to all the witnesses.
I'm going to cede my time, because I think Mr. Masse knows more about this than all of us. I'm going to let him have the floor.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you. I appreciate this opportunity, especially because I want to go back to Chief Duckworth.
With regard to the other projects you're doing with Caldwell First Nation, can you highlight them and why this fits into the other projects you're doing? You haven't been rebranding for long in terms of getting back into the area. I've represented there for about 20 years, and having you emerge has been an exciting chapter.
Can you highlight some of the other things, and how this fits into those other things taking place?
Caldwell First Nation
Yes, I would love to.
We have a very strong relationship with Point Pelee and the superintendent there and all the staff. We're the only first nation that participates with them in a deer herd reduction, also known as a cull. Caldwell First Nation hunters go in and remove the overpopulation of deer in order to keep the park safe. That meat is harvested by us and given out to our first nation members, where we represent 400 citizens.
There is a re-emergence, as you said, because we have the land base now. Before, we were scattered. I think it's important to note that the park has done a lot of work with us in renaming some of the streets from settler names to our first nation names. The park has done murals with Walpole Island and us with regard to the art, as with the Gordie Howe bridge and those two big pieces of art on the Gordie Howe bridge. One is from a Caldwell citizen and one is from a Walpole citizen. We know our boundaries and we respectfully work with each other. Walpole sits with us at the table at Parks Canada when we talk about the development of their 10-year plan, which we just went through.
I think it's important to have the bill go through with parks because we already have a relationship established with Point Pelee, Walpole and Caldwell. I think it fits under their mandate. I believe it's important.
I know that we're talking about adding pieces, but at this time I would just love to be able to have that legislation go through to protect that piece of land and to create something wonderful in southwestern Ontario, knowing what we're going through with climate change.
We're doing the same in Point Pelee. We're looking at bringing back the wild rice. It was one of our discussions. We've talked about how we're going to manage that and about how we are going to have other people come into the park, like the schools. We're really big on working with the schools and the teachers to educate them on Point Pelee and its history and its biodiversity and its partnerships.
We have a partnership now with Hydro. We just signed with them, so we're working there. We're also working with the City of Windsor and with Doug Ford to ensure that we're allowing big projects to come through the Three Fires Confederacy territory, as we have a special table set with Doug Ford and seven ministers.
As you know, we have a lot of Hydro battery storage. Windsor's going to be doing battery vehicles. A lot of energy is going to have to come through our territory, and if we can't save that one little piece, knowing everything that we're about to do to shift from climate change, then shame on us for not being able to do that.
Meegwetch.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Really quickly, for the Friends of the Ojibway, are the volunteers prepared like you are to help move this quickly in terms of the hours you put in?
President, The Friends of Ojibway Prairie
Absolutely: I think we will certainly put all the effort we can into it.
Liberal
Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL
Thank you.
This is probably going to be the end of the session, and I would like to allow the four groups to answer this question. Understanding that time is limited at the end, could you keep each of your answers to probably just under a minute?
The question is for each group: What is your vision for this national urban park and how would this bill support the vision?
If I could, I'll start with you, Chief Duckworth, and then go to Mr. Francis, The Friends of Ojibway Prairie and Ms. Sumner.