Environment Committee on Nov. 1st, 2022

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

If I could speak for Ms. Taylor Roy, as well, we would like you, Ms. Gabriel, to please continue. I think we need to hear your voice now.

Thank you.

[Ellen Gabriel]

Thank you.

We have tried, for so long, to get the government to help us. They make the Mohawks look bad. It's a joke to call G&R “Recycling”, because it's not recycling. There is toxic waste. We tried to help the young farmers living close by, and they are afraid as well.

It takes a lot of courage to stand up and say, in public to you all, that what we are seeing is environmental racism. It is colonization at its “best”. We are meant to see our traditional ways as irrelevant and not current, when our traditional ways are the ones that are guiding the youth and trying to protect the environment and leave a legacy for future generations.

This dump we see in my community.... It will take at least 10,000 years to clean up that mess so future generations can use it. This is totally unacceptable. We tried with government. We tried with every single person we could use, and nobody said.... The band council said it's okay. The band council is a creation of the federal government. They never consult the communities. We are left with their decisions and the garbage they leave behind.

We are left, under the Indian Act, to search for different ways of economic development. This is somebody's version of “economic development” that we are stuck with. The only thing stopping seepage is the clay underneath this. None of the precautions of any waste facilities were taken for this. There were numerous fines that were done and they didn't care, because it was a drop in the bucket for these people.

The invisible hands behind the Mohawks are not indigenous. Those are the invisible hands we are all afraid of. I don't know what's going to happen after I present to you today, but I do know that, if I remain silent, the lawlessness that exists in Kanesatake and other indigenous communities will continue further. The excuse, “Well, they're so divided” is the reason why we are at this point in time. We see criminals coming into our community, exploiting the gaps in the Indian Act and human rights, and saying, “We will buy you this and that, if you allow us to dump in your community.”

I don't know who to go to anymore. Maybe you can help—maybe this law will help—but it has to go further than that, because tomorrow morning, when I wake up, I'm still in the same community. I'm still dealing with the same crap that has been left here by the city of Montreal—all the sewage. This is prime agricultural land that can no longer be used for many generations.

I do appreciate you listening to me. I appreciate so much that you are allowing me to speak, because I don't want this to turn out to be a violent situation. That's why this has been allowed to go on for so long: People don't want violence. However, what are we supposed to do when we stand up and they come to our homes and threaten our lives? They threaten us. What are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to just stay quiet and let them, again, ride roughshod over our community?

The Pines that we stood up for are being cut down for marijuana shacks. We are the playground of the people—the youth from Montreal and surrounding communities. It is not a safe community. It's not the community I want. It does not represent Mohawk and indigenous values of caring for the environment.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

I will go now to Mr. Deltell, who has four minutes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Gabriel, what should we do to help you?

[Ellen Gabriel]

My first thought is not a good thought, so I won't say it.

What you could do to help me is perhaps have a commission to investigate the corruption in Kanesatake by the federal and provincial governments, the police and the Mohawk Council of Kanesatake, past and present. Help us get rid of the dump, but also help us with our safety, because we don't know who to ask anymore. If this committee has suggestions.... This shouldn't be a few minutes' discussion, which is what you're asking me to do. This demands a long discussion and solutions. That's what our community is going to try to do.

I thank you for your time and help.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Ms. Gabriel, you're suggesting a commission. Who should lead the commission? Should it be a person from the federal government, from your community or a person from a first nation but not from your community? What would be your proposition on that?

[Ellen Gabriel]

I think there needs to be an independent investigation with international observers, because I think that, if we are asking the corrupted to investigate themselves, we won't get anywhere. If there is a commission that investigates the corruption that's happening in the community from outside forces, government apathy and lack of action, then we might get somewhere.

It should have been done a long time ago, because we are dealing with the consequences of that through the risk to our lives, to our health and well-being and to the very things our ancestors taught us, which is to respect the land for future generations and this generation. They deserve better, and they're not getting it.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Why, 30 years after the Oka crisis that we remember, each and everyone here, especially people from Quebec, have things not changed? If they have changed, it is worse than ever.

[Ellen Gabriel]

The actors who we are talking about today are the same ones who have ridden roughshod over the community for the last 32 years with impunity. They are the untouchables. It's not for lack of trying on our part to do that. The government has made the Longhouse, the Haudenosaunee, illegitimate. They have said that the Mohawk Council is the only legal authority, yet you passed a bill last June on the implementation on the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Traditional governments that predate European arrival still exist. We survived, but we are not recognized. We are ignored. We are silenced. If you can help us with that, that would be a step in the right direction.

We are always under the band council's thumb. To me, that's been part of the problem. The same players we are talking about today created fear and havoc 32 years ago in our community and flew warrior flags when they're not really warriors. That's what you need to remember. People who fly the warrior flags now, they're not really warriors. They're businessmen. They want to protect their business interests.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Do you have any support from the provincial association of the first nation people? Do you have any support from them?

[Ellen Gabriel]

Do you know what? Nobody wants to touch us with a 10-foot pole.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I'm sorry. No one...?

[Ellen Gabriel]

I'm telling you that nobody wants to touch us with a 10-foot pole. Nobody wants to get involved—nobody.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Even the Quebec first nations associations...?

[Ellen Gabriel]

Are you talking about AFNQL?

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Yes.

[Ellen Gabriel]

Not really. It is very difficult to understand the situation in a community if you are not there.

I have to switch to English.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

If you could just conclude very briefly, we'll go to Mr. Longfield. He'll have some questions as well.

Mr. Longfield...?

Okay, there's a Liberal slot. Go ahead, Ms. Taylor Roy.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I'd like to give my time to Ms. May.

I'll say one thing beforehand.

I just want to thank you for being here, Ms. Ellen Gabriel, and for your courage in standing up.

I want to thank Lenore Zann, and also Ya'ara Saks, who also wanted to be here today. She has worked on this bill with Ms. May and couldn't be here today.

I would like to give my time to Ms. May.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

How much time is that, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have two and half minutes.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

That's a lot. Thank you.

I also want to thank Ya'ara Saks, who seconded this bill with Lenore Zann at the time.

I want to try to bring it back to how Bill C-226 could be a way of assisting the community of Kanesatake and other communities, but I can't start or open my mouth without saying that, Ellen Gabriel, you are the bravest human being I know. You are grounded in principles, values and integrity that are breathtaking.

Yes, this is probably one of the most complicated jurisdictional and dangerous issues I have ever seen in decades of working on issues of toxic contamination and endangered communities, and it is very difficult to see from where help will come. I am very grateful that this committee has created the opportunity for you to speak directly to MPs, who, regardless of party affiliation, want to help.

I want to bring it back to Bill C-226 and say that, in terms of confronting environmental racism and advancing environmental justice, one of the corner pins of this bill is to give communities that are at risk the protections and the support they need. If the bill were brought forward as law and we had a program for environmental justice, what might you see as the most...? You've mentioned a commission on the issues of Kanesatake, but how would we use environmental justice programming to protect your community and clean it up?

I know you said that without systemic change, if you clean up one waste site, there will just be another one. For members of this committee who don't know, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, I don't know how many years ago, made an order that the site had to be cleaned up and that has not been enforced.

How could we ensure a cleaner and safer future for your community?

[Ellen Gabriel]

I wish I had a crystal ball to really give you a good answer on that, but I think the first thing we need to do is to remember that human rights are interrelated and interdependent. We need to bring in the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples along with human rights perspectives to allow indigenous communities to have free, prior and informed consent, not just through their band council but through the traditional governments that understand our customary laws and protocols and how to protect the environment. I think that is paramount if this bill is to succeed in protecting the quality of life that we have in our communities.

We need to have an investigation of why this has been so neglected by government. Think of seven generations from now. How will this affect seven generations from now? I wish I had more answers for you.

I'm not at home with all my notes. I had connectivity problems.

I think if we go by just the connection between environmental and human rights, they are one and the same, and our spiritual rights are connected to this. Our medicines and our health are connected. It's not just a matter of policy implementation. There have to be true consultations with regard to how indigenous communities want to see an environmental racism bill really benefit us rather than just being told, “This is a bill. This is the law,” when we know that the law has not been there for us. When we talk about justice with regard to the Canadian court system, it has been lacking for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gabriel, and to all the witnesses and the committee members for their probing questions.

That brings us to the end of our meeting. On Friday we will be doing clause-by-clause on the bill.

It's been a very interesting discussion. Thank you to all who participated.

On that I'll ask for a motion to adjourn.

[An hon. member]

I so move.