Environment Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2022

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

First of all, thank you for your remarks in French.

This is the first time I've had the pleasure of meeting some of you. It's obviously not the first time I've given testimony at the environment committee.

During my opening remarks, I made a specific reference to some Senate amendments that propose creating requirements to determine the need for a new organism. That is one example of myself and the department having a difficult time seeing how one would ever operationalize something like that.

As I said earlier, I think we agree on many amendments. We would like to change some, but that's something—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay. We'll get to that further on. Thank you, Minister.

I am curious about one thing. Clause 9 expands your information-gathering powers, as set out under subsection 46(1), to include “products that contain” or “may release...into the environment” a “substance that is toxic” or capable of becoming toxic, and “activities that may contribute to pollution; hydraulic fracturing; [and] tailings ponds.”

Minister, speaking frankly, you and your government—you in particular—have made several efforts to move into provincial jurisdiction. Is this another attempt to move to regulate provincially, or—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry. We have a point of order, Mr. McLean.

You have the floor, Ms. Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm sorry, but the interpreters are having a lot of difficulty understanding our colleague.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, the communication is poor.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I don't know if it is because of the height of the microphone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I don't know.

I think, Mr. McLean, your microphone isn't in the proper place. There might be a connection problem. I don't know. Let's keep going and see what happens.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Minister, did you hear my question?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I did.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay, so it's clause 9, this bill's attempt to move into regulating hydraulic fracturing and tailings ponds, which I don't think your department is involved with at this point in time. Is it another attempt to regulate interprovincial jurisdiction, as you've demonstrated in other manners?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I would disagree with your characterization of our actions. In fact, the Supreme Court, when it came to carbon pricing—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I'm sorry. It's not a characterization. It's a question.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

There was a characterization and then the question. I disagree with your characterization.

As you know, environment is a shared jurisdiction, and no, it's not an attempt to try to intrude on provincial jurisdiction. The federal government has a recognized jurisdiction when it comes to issues such as water quality, for example.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay, thank you.

Do I have a little more time here because of the interruption there, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I did stop it when we were having....

Anyway, go ahead. Just keep going.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I know that some of my colleagues talked about the definitions here on what we're talking about—environmental equity, environmental justice—but we also talked about harm versus benefit. When we talk about intergenerational equity, is this balance in what contributes to benefit and what contributes to harm going to be there going forward?

I know it is two sides of the same ledger. Are we going to provide these definitions for judges ahead of time, or are we going to leave it open for somebody else—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Answer briefly, please, Minister, maybe in 10 or 15 seconds. It's whatever you can do in 10 or 15 seconds.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

That's a really good question.

As a legislator, I think the issue of balance is a really important one. Earlier this week, I approved a mining project for palladium that will have significant local impacts and will generate benefits down the road because it will help us to electrify many of our industries.

That's a very good question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We have to go to Ms. Taylor Roy now—no, we don't have to: It is with pleasure that we go to Ms. Taylor Roy.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for that.

Hello, Minister Guilbeault. Thank you for being here today and for taking our questions.

Thank you also for your leadership in implementing the right to a healthy environment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry. There is an Internet problem again. I'm just going to stop for a second.

Are we looking into that problem?

We'll just pause for two seconds while we look into the Internet connection issue. We will suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll try again. There seems to be a problem regarding video and audio prioritization.

Let's see, and if it doesn't work properly, we'll stop again. Sorry about that.

Go ahead.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll continue in English because my French is probably more difficult to hear with a bad Internet connection.

You talked a lot about the new plan of chemicals management, how that's a priority and what's happening with that. However, before I get to my question, I also want to thank you and your department for the leadership on reducing the need for animal testing and for trying to make progress in that area. I think it's very important and I'm very grateful.

My question has to do with the assessment and reassessment of chemicals. I'm assuming they're covered under the higher standards of Bill S-5. I would just like you to comment on what they are and what specific benefits you see coming from that improved chemicals management plan

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you for your kind words, and thank you for the important question.

One of the proposed changes in this bill relates to the modernization of the management of chemicals and other substances. I don't tend to use the word “leader” lightly, but as I said earlier, we are recognized as a world leader when it comes to the management of chemicals. In fact, I often have meetings with some of my peers in different countries who want to learn from Canada's experience.

We've completed, as I said earlier, 98.5% of the more than 4,600 substances that were identified, and I'm pleased to confirm that the reassessments will also be held at this level of stringency in the evaluation process going forward once Bill S-5 is adopted.

It is a clear environmental benefit for Canadians by ensuring that chemicals that are assessed under the act will be held to the highest environmental standards both when they are originally assessed and when they are reassessed. This is clearly progress.