Evidence of meeting #51 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was subamendment.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Alexandre Longpré
Laura Farquharson  Director General, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

On a point of order, doesn't Madame Pauzé have to table her amendment first, and then we would move those subamendments?

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Yes, we could do that. I was just trying to get all the ducks in order.

Ms. Pauzé, you can speak to your amendment.

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We want to replace every instance of the word “may” with an obligation. For example, where it says “the Minister may disclose”, we want it to be an obligation and say that the minister shall disclose. We want the minister to act and not avoid his or her obligation to release information to the public too often. If he is given the opportunity to do this or that, instead of being required to do it, he may avoid his obligation to disclose. He must provide the information. The public has a right to be informed. Therefore, we have proposed amendment BQ‑14 to create that obligation.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I understand that Mr. Longfield wants to propose a subamendment.

Mr. Longfield, am I correct that you want to table a subamendment?

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is with regard to the “shall” that is being proposed in two places, in proposed subsections 317.1(1) and 317.1(2), which talk about the request for confidentiality. That's something we've handled in another part of this bill, where confidentiality is respected in terms of the definition of confidentiality that's handled through Industry Canada.

I propose that we maintain the third “shall”, but because of the definition of confidentiality in other parts of the bill, I propose that we change “shall” back to “may” in the first two, so that the minister “may disclose the explicit chemical or biological name” and “may disclose the explicit biological name of a living organism” in respect of a request for confidentiality.

We'd agree with the third “shall”.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Okay.

A voice

[Inaudible—Editor]

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

My subamendment would cause the wording to revert back to the original language for the first two. It would change “shall” back to “may”.

It would maintain “shall” for the third intervention.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Mr. Longfield, just to be sure, you want to change “shall” in the first two to “may”, but you want to leave the last “shall” alone.

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

That's correct.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Okay.

Monsieur Deltell, you wanted to intervene.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Chair, I just want to ask a technical question.

Why is the government amendment an amendment to the Bloc Québécois amendment? We could have voted on the Bloc Québécois amendment and the other amendment afterwards.

I will leave it to the experts to decide what to do.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

This is a subamendment, Mr. Deltell.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Okay. That said, I do not understand why this subamendment is being moved when we could have voted on the Bloc Québécois amendment first. Afterwards, the government side could have moved this amendment without attacking the nature of the Bloc Québécois amendment. That said, this is a logistical matter, and I will leave it to the experts in the area to decide.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Since the subamendment has already been moved, we will have to vote on it first.

Since no one wishes to debate the subamendment, let's put it to a vote right away.

(Subamendment agreed to: yeas 9; nays 2)

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

We will now debate amendment BQ‑14 as amended.

Ms. Collins, you have the floor.

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

I want to thank Madame Pauzé for putting this forward. It is the same as NDP-38—

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

It is no longer.

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

Yes. It was the same as NDP-38, which I think was a stronger version of this amendment.

I will be supporting this, because I think the change of even one “may” to “shall” is a move in the right direction.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Chair, I would like to get a clarification.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Mr. Deltell, go ahead.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

We agreed that the minister should be given some latitude to make a decision by specifying in subsections 317.1(1) and (2) that the minister “may disclose” certain information. We also agreed that the minister should be required in subsection 317.1(3) to disclose certain information.

However, the subamendment that was just agreed to completely distorts the Bloc Québécois' position. Ms. Pauzé's position is that these three subsections should no longer provide a choice, but impose an obligation. Maybe I'm wrong; that's why I want her to comment.

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Ms. Pauzé, do you want to comment on this?

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

This distorts two-thirds of my proposal, leaving only a requirement in the last subsection. I voted against the subamendment, and I think that's fine, as I knew I was going to lose. However, I will still vote for BQ‑14 as amended, since I was able to get one-third of the changes I asked for. In baseball, that would be one strike, wouldn't it?

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Yes, indeed. We're getting there, one obligation at a time.

We will now go to a vote on amendment BQ‑14 as amended.

(Amendment as amended agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])