Environment Committee on March 20th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

What you had suggested was that the committee invite representatives from the Department of the Environment. Is that right?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

All right.

Over to you, Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I think we do need to keep it tight.

I would also like to have the territorial ministers. We have mentioned the provincial ones, but I would like the provincial and territorial ministers.

I like the timeline that Madame Pauzé is proposing: to get it done by the end of April. It's going to get stale quickly. We want to be on top of it, as it's right now currently in focus.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Kurek is next.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Would now be an appropriate time to move a possible amendment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes. I'm wondering, for the sake of clarity.... There seems to be disagreement on the number of meetings. I think that's one issue.

I don't know what you think about this, but to keep it clear in my mind, should we decide on the number of meetings and then decide on the witnesses? Otherwise, it gets a little confusing.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Chair, maybe our colleague from the NDP would have something to say. Before making any decisions, we could hear from everybody.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, absolutely.

Go ahead, Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate your suggestion, but I would like to hear the actual proposal on the table for the amendment before figuring out what we're doing in terms of the number of meetings. I'm curious to know what first nations and what ministers, etc.

I think I would prefer to go in the opposite order, just to hear the proposals on the table for who we would be hearing from and what the overall scope of this would be. Then, based on the decisions we make around the scope of the study, we can decide on the meetings.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Chair, could we suspend again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I call the meeting back to order.

I'm curious to find out what was agreed to in the sidebar there.

Go ahead, Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I wanted to note that I'm not able to be there today because of an appointment. I'm going to be flying to Ottawa tomorrow.

I could see what was going on in the room, and every single MP on the committee was huddled in a circle. Two issues are coming up for me.

One is that I would really love to know what was said, but I think the public also would. If every MP on the committee is having a conversation, I think the public also deserves to know what is being discussed. If we're not going in camera, then perhaps these conversations can be had in this public forum so that citizens who are listening in can hear what the discussions are as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm curious to know what was discussed as well, because I wasn't in the group.

Mr. Kurek, did you want to say something?

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Certainly. I want to acknowledge very much.... I know I've been on the virtual side of this and quickly evolving situations. I acknowledge that fully, and this is why I think these discussions are important in public.

I know there are a couple of notes and clarifications that we wanted to have discussion on with the mover. That's part of the challenge we're all navigating as a virtual Parliament.

I fully acknowledge that, Laurel. On our side here, we're working on a couple of thoughts and we'll probably have an amendment very shortly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Does anyone else want to speak while we wait for the Conservative amendment?

Go ahead, Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

With apologies to Ms. Collins, actually, we were saying in our conversation that you weren't part of it and neither was Mr. Duguid. That wasn't fair.

Trying to do this as efficiently as we can, one of the things we talked about was how we work within the time frame that Madame Pauzé has brought forward and include as many of the relevant people in the discussion as we can within that time frame. That's where we've come up with some ideas.

I would like to put it over to the person moving the motion, so that Mr. Kurek or Mr. Deltell could maybe fill us in on some of those thoughts.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I'd like to shed some more light on the conversations we had with the mover of the original motion.

We are all eager to get to the bottom of this, and we are mindful of the fact that we have a limited amount of time, with three meetings having been set aside. Ms. Pauzé mentioned the importance of holding the meetings in close succession. She also said that she thought it would be beneficial to hear from federal environment officials, since they aren't among the three groups of witnesses listed in the original motion.

Informally, we agreed to invite Imperial Oil representatives. We also agreed to invite representatives from the Alberta Energy Regulator, who may be authorized to speak on behalf of the Alberta government, which could save the committee from having to invite ministers. We could also invite federal officials, from the Department of the Environment. As far as first nations are concerned, I think the least we can do is invite representatives from all seven of the first nations affected.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

If I understand correctly, your amendment seeks to include officials from the federal environment department.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I'll let Ms. Pauzé speak to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

All right.

Ms. Pauzé, go ahead.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

It's exactly as you said, Mr. Chair. We would like the committee to also invite federal environment officials.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. The committee would add officials from the federal Department of the Environment to the witness list, and include representatives from all seven affected first nations. Currently, the motion lists only three of them, so four would need to be added.

Does anyone know the names of the other four first nations?

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Chair, I can email the names of the additional four to the clerk if that is helpful. There are seven nations in total that are included.