Environment Committee on April 17th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. I hope you had a good two weeks of constituency work.

Welcome to meeting 57 of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, March 20, the committee is commencing its study of the toxic leak of tailings ponds. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format.

I would like to make a few comments regarding how the meeting will unfold.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. Please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

There is interpretation for those on Zoom. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French audio. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

I'll remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. For those in the room, please raise your hand if you wish to speak. For those on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function.

I would like to welcome to committee today Ms. McPherson, who is substituting for Ms. Collins, as well as Ms. Goodridge, who is substituting for Mr. Lake. I hope you enjoy your time here and will want to come back at some point. There's also Ms. May, of course. Ms. May is almost a regular, so it's not so unusual to see her.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I'm unpacking my begging bowl for questions later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It's nice to see you here again, Ms. May.

Before we start, we have with us for the first panel Chief Allan Adam from the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation, as well as Callie Davies-Flett, a regulatory adviser. From the Fort McMurray 468 First Nation, we have Martin Grygar, who is a professional engineer. From the Mikisew Cree First Nation, online I believe, we have Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro and Melody Lepine, director.

I would like to emphasize that the opening statements are five minutes only. At five minutes, I will have to cut you off, but that's okay, because a lot of what I'm sure would have been said in the overrun can be said during the question and answer period.

Chief Adam, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Chief Allan Adam, Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation]

Good morning, everyone.

My name is Allan Adam, and I'm the chief of the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation. You know that it's hockey season now. The last time I was this excited was when Wayne Gretzky took the cup back home. Connor McDavid is going to do the same for us this year.

Coming down to Ottawa is meaningful to our people. We expect to come down to Ottawa to compromise with elected officials who will think about what life will bring for the goodness of all.

With that, sir, I know I have probably about four minutes or so, but I'm going to read this testimony. I've come from a long way away, and to say that I have five minutes.... You're going to listen to what I'm going to say with more than five minutes, because what I'm going to say is very important to the nation's interest with regard to how we are going to develop this country. If you don't sit and listen to me, then I will get up and walk away right now. I will leave the submission here and it will all be done in 10 seconds.

My submission is probably a little over five minutes. All I'm asking for is seven minutes of your time. I will be direct and I will be forthcoming. I came out of my way from Alberta to come to sit before you today to make you understand what our people are going through and that we are not a joke.

Good morning. Thank you to the honourable members for inviting us here today. This issue is extremely important and deserves more attention.

While I would like to tell you that it is my pleasure to be here, that would be a lie. For some reason, it has become my job to come to this place to remind this government of its duties and responsibilities.

Your responsibility is to uphold our constitutional, guaranteed treaty rights under section 35. Your responsibility is to deliver the basic health, social, education and infrastructure services that your settler communities take for granted. Your responsibility is to properly regulate massive industrial projects that potentially threaten the health and safety of Fort Chipewyan and other downstream communities. Your responsibility is to warn human beings when their water might have been poisoned as a result of a failed tailings dam that was declared to be safe when it was approved and licensed by Canada. Make me understand that. It was done by Canada.

You have a responsibility, regardless of what you think. So does Alberta, but it has been leaking tailings onto our traditional territories for the past 11 months, let alone for the last 30 years. This is just what we know of.

For 10 months, this leak went unreported, despite the Alberta Energy Regulator and the oil sands operators being fully aware of what was going on. How many people in Ottawa knew what was going on in Alberta for the last 10 months?

For the last 10 months, the federal and provincial governments have done absolutely nothing. I can attest to that, because nobody gave me a phone call. It was only after a more serious, catastrophic leak earlier this year that we learned the truth. Even then, the settler governments did nothing.

It wasn’t until we alerted the national media to this story that anyone in Ottawa or Edmonton started paying attention. It wasn’t until we visited the spill site and published photos and video of the impacts on the fish-bearing water bodies and wildlife that anyone questioned the official story being pushed by the Premier of Alberta and the AER.

Everything is good, according to her. There's no harm to the wildlife. Well, come and eat the food we eat. Come and drink the water we drink. Maybe you'll say something different about that afterwards.

Despite two months of front-page headlines, we still don't have an account of what took place. To our knowledge, no one has been fired, disciplined or sanctioned by the companies, this government or other governments. While some at Imperial have attempted to apologize, Alberta’s reaction throughout has been to simply treat this as a communication issue. This is a deliberate legal and political attempt to minimize a massive industrial catastrophe and the financial and political liabilities that will flow from it. When I say that, I mean there is still legal action pending here. It's pending towards the Alberta government as well.

Don't walk away too far, Canada, because you guys are just as much of a perpetrator in regard to what has happened here. I wouldn't be here today in Ottawa if there wasn't anything going on in Alberta, but unfortunately it's still happening. It's still leaking today. There aren't any answers to fix it, but we'll carry on.

What I take from this is that Canada is a country where you can dump 5.5 million litres of toxic sludge into the environment. Remember, that was set in just one day—5.5 million litres in one day. When I went to the Imperial site, they said that place was leaking for three days. It's times three now. Understand that without being accounted for.... I'm telling you this first-hand, because I was on the site. They threaten the health and well-being of downstream communities and suffer no consequences. The Canada pension plan and the Alberta Investment Management Corporation continue to invest tens of millions of dollars every year in the oil sands.

Canadians expect this industry to be properly regulated. I’m here to tell you that it's not true. It's not regulated. While Alberta bears much of the blame, Canada must also shoulder the responsibility for what is happening. CEPA, the Fisheries Act and the Mackenzie River Basin Transboundary Waters Master Agreement, which you have with your own counterparts.... You guys can't even fulfill that. I would have told them that 20 years ago. That agreement contains legal tools and frameworks that would enable the federal government to protect the health and safety of the residents downstream of the oil sands.

We can point to a lack of enforcement, funding and political will, but these are excuses, not solutions. We need solutions. This incident has downstream indigenous communities in Alberta and residents of the north questioning whether this is an isolated problem or a systemic issue throughout the oil sands. When I say a “systemic issue”, I'm talking about systemic racism in regard to first nations communities downstream. If this were in Calgary, I guarantee you guys would be crying and yelling from the bottom of your lungs, not me here today.

We ask that the federal government use all legal tools available to take control of the investigation and cleanup of the Imperial-Exxon-Kearl spill. Our trust in the Alberta government has been broken. It has been broken for a long time. It is clear they cannot be trusted to oversee this mess.

This mess has been going on since the 1960s. When are you guys going to clean it up? Alberta has $1 billion to clean up the oil sands. It requires $130 billion. From where is Canada going to get the rest if Alberta can't come up with that? That's a true fact, written by your peers and not by me.

We also call on the government to undertake a comprehensive inspection of the structural integrity of the tailings ponds across the oil sands, not only within Kearl. If a leak can go unreported for 10 months at Kearl, what is happening elsewhere? We need a credible, viable audit of every tailings pond in order to restore basic trust. If you can't do that, why are you sitting here?

Finally, Canada needs to ensure that indigenous people have a direct role in how the oil sands are regulated and how decisions about tailings are made. We need to prioritize the policies of how it is going to deal with the tailings ponds over the long term.

Industry and Alberta are proposing to treat the tailings liquid and release it back into the Athabasca River in Alberta. There is no way my community or any downstream communities will accept this solution. This is not our mess. We will not permit the polluters to dump this into our drinking water, because if you do that, does Canada have enough funds to move our community and our people to a safe place?

I'll tell you this, and I'll give fair warning to all of you. There is a big legal potential coming out of this, in regard to which Canada is going to be one of the perpetrators, alongside the oil sands and the Alberta government.

What I find unfounded, Mr. Chairman, is this. Why do first nations communities have to go before a panel when we are acquiring a licence in our traditional territories? Why do we have to spend millions of dollars to give our testimony and our evidence in regard to safe drinking water and the safe eating of the fish and the moose and everything else?

Why is it that we have to spend millions of dollars, yet the Alberta government continues to rubber-stamp every oil sands application that goes forward? Why couldn't we be sitting on the other side with the panel, which would not cost us anything, rather than hearing testimony in regard to the harm they want to do to our community?

The AER in Alberta is a complete joke. If you all stand and sit here with me and think about it, and you agree with it, then why am I here? It's been rubber-stamping the industry for the last 40 years. Bite your teeth. Bite them hard, because this is not a joke. This is reality.

Our people back home are continuing to die from the health issues that continue today, which nobody has talked about for the last 10 years. If you want me to bring that up, I will bring it back up, and we will start all over again.

You'll like the fact that I have to hear from my father-in-law, and I'll tell you this. My father-in-law is going to get his results back today, because they found a big growth in his liver last week—cancer. I'm supposed to be with my wife to comfort her when she hears this news, but I'm here giving testimony to everybody across Canada about the issue going on in our community.

If these tailings ponds continue to leak, our life expectancy is not going to be 80 anymore. Our life expectancy, throughout the whole community, will probably be about 60. I say that because young people are starting to catch cancer now—and we're not talking about all the mental issues that continue to go on after COVID. These issues were here long before COVID came and they will be here long after COVID goes. If we can't deal with them, we have a problem. There shouldn't be any more development going on in our area, because our people are being affected by it. The communities downstream continue to be affected by it. If anyone here believes this is safe, I invite you to volunteer your community's water supply for long-term tailings storage.

This problem is not going to simply fix itself. Canada and Canadians have made billions of dollars from this resource. Canada has a responsibility to address the larger tailings and reclamation crisis unfolding in our region—it threatens the entire Mackenzie basin downstream of the oil sands—by empowering a federally mandated, indigenous-led co-management body with effective oversight and enforcement powers to fix it.

What we're asking, Mr. Chair, is for the first nations communities that are going to be affected by major industrial components to be the AER, to be the regulators. We should be sitting behind the table, not giving evidence about the damaging effects the industry has on our communities and why they continue today, in the 20th century.

What mandate do you have? The mandate you have is affecting our people downstream, and it's going to continue to affect them.

I'll leave it at that, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Grygar.

[Martin Grygar, Professional Engineer, Fort McMurray 468 First Nation]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Chief Adam.

I am here today to speak on behalf of Fort McMurray 468 First Nation. Neil Cheecham was going to attend, but he's unable to attend today. I am honoured to speak on behalf of him and the community members.

Today is a day we all thought would never happen. More importantly, the errors in disclosure and reporting to the DFO and indigenous communities were disappointing. To this day, we are still waiting for a scope of work to get approved to review technical documents from Imperial. Even requests of Imperial to review more documents of water quality have been delayed and postponed, or the details that have been provided have been very limited. This obviously creates distrust among the communities and community members.

We live in a rules-based society. I will repeat that: We live in a rules-based society. However, the recent incident at Imperial Oil's Kearl plant has shown that oil sands operators, regulatory bodies and governments continue to behave inappropriately and value interest groups over trust and transparency. Therefore, today we seek to express the growing request that regulations and policies in remediation, environmental protection and restoration need to be grounded in the protection and continuance of inherent aboriginal and treaty rights in the area.

Fort McMurray 468 First Nation is a treaty rights-bearing indigenous community based in Fort McMurray. In 2021, Canada's United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act received royal assent and came into force. This is very important to the communities in this area because it allows them the ability to practise their treaty rights on this land when the oil sand operators wrap up their operations. This legislation provides a road map for the Government of Canada and indigenous peoples to work together to implement the UN declaration based on lasting reconciliation, healing and co-operative relations.

Critical to exercising our rights is the use of the region's extensive waterways, including, most importantly, the Athabasca River watershed. With that in mind, there is a growing concern with the tailings ponds that contain process-affected water and industrial waste water, which is currently estimated to be 1.7 trillion litres and covering 225 square kilometres. The increasing risk of seepage will have a detrimental impact on wildlife, traditional fish sources and drinking water. Tailings ponds and seepage issues are difficult to reclaim and create a growing concern about environmental impacts and impacts to human health, treaty rights and culture.

To reiterate Chief Adam's comments, the indigenous communities in that area have been suffering increasing rates of cancer. We've all assumed that these ponds have been leaking, and today is the first example where there's evidence of these tailings waters escaping their site.

Everybody brushes off the increase in the risk of cancer—those in indigenous communities smoke, drink and live an unhealthy lifestyle. I think it's important to understand that there might be other reasons for the increasing risk to indigenous communities in that area.

The recent incident in Imperial Oil's Kearl plant and the ensuing environmental protection order highlight serious regulatory management deficiencies. The lack of regulatory oversight and decisive action regarding the incident, coupled with an absence of early communication, meant that communities like Fort McMurray 468 First Nation and all the other communities in that area were potentially exposed to acute and chronic human health risks through multiple pathways—on the surface and potentially in groundwater.

Now there's evidence to say that it was winter and the wildlife wasn't prevalent—they were all asleep—and that drinking from frozen rivers or tributaries was probably not as important as maybe in the summer. However, the risk was there. It's still there, and it continues to be there.

The way the matter has been managed is further eroding our confidence in Alberta's regulatory regime, its issue-management capacity and its ability to protect our rights. Therefore, we would ask the people in this room to consider our comments and take into consideration targets and metrics that are meaningful for the industry and stakeholders, which are the communities that surround this development.

We need regulatory frameworks that regulate the environment, a regional assessment under the Impact Assessment Act and a cumulative effects study incorporating not just Imperial but Suncor, Synoil, Syncrude and all of the operators in that area. It's important to understand here that everybody considers their own little piece of pie. Everybody could bring up LARP, but that doesn't have enough teeth. There needs to be additional oversight to ensure that the cumulative effects of all operations are being considered.

Considering the detrimental impacts seepage has on the environment, we're also disappointed and concerned about the industry steering the regulations and politics in regard to releasing process-affected water and industrial waste water from these tailings ponds. I note this again: It's easy to make this water disappear, but the risk to the communities won't disappear.

The proposed plan to amend the Fisheries Act to consider allowing the release of process-affected water and industrial waste water from oil sands operations is a step backwards. It's another great example of how indigenous communities have been constantly overlooked, particularly in the absence of a cumulative effects assessment.

However, I do want to take a moment of everyone's time to thank everyone in this room for the partnership regarding the federal government legislation. It can help provide a road map for the Government of Canada and indigenous peoples to work together to implement the UN declaration based on lasting reconciliation, healing and co-operative relationships.

The CIWG is one part of the solution that offers indigenous communities a pathway to finding meaningful solutions that help lead to consent. The structure of multiple subgroups within the CIWG allows the opportunity for open and honest dialogue to achieve consent and alignment with Canadian constitutional law and, more importantly, indigenous law. I think what was missed before was the gap between indigenous law and constitutional law, which has caused conflict and rift among the communities. I think the CIWG offers a pathway to bridge that gap moving forward.

We have an ask today. Because the concepts of reclamation and equivalent land capability are usually derived from an agricultural or forestry perspective—historically with minimal input from indigenous communities and knowledge keepers—we would like to begin to focus on a more active regulatory framework to evaluate the protection level and develop and apply indigenous standards, where required, to traditional foods, land use and cultural practice, rather than use the default guidelines being utilized by the AER. The Government of Canada's regulations and policies are required to support remediation and restoration to allow indigenous communities to exercise treaty and aboriginal rights.

There is a community member, Velma, who is a very knowledgeable person. She's been there supporting this community for a really long time. Her saying is “we didn't do this to ourselves; we had this done to us”. This problem is not going away. An active regulatory process can help achieve meaningful results in this area.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much, Mr. Grygar.

We'll go now to Chief Tuccaro.

Please go ahead, Chief.

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro, Mikisew Cree First Nation]

Good morning, everyone. My name is Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro. I'm calling from Fort Chipewyan, Alberta.

I would like to echo Chief Adam's words. I too will be going past my allotted five minutes in respect to the seriousness of the situation that is occurring in the community at this time.

With that, I'd like to thank you all for inviting me to speak today. My name is Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro of the Mikisew Cree First Nation. I am joined today by Melody Lepine, who is the director of our government and industry relations department. She will assist me with answering any questions you may have.

First of all, we would like to take this opportunity to express our frustration and critical concerns regarding the Imperial Oil Kearl oil sands project's tailings leak of toxic substances into our environment and how that has been poorly handled. We say that because we as a community, as Chief Adam mentioned as well, were notified only 10 months later, and that is totally unacceptable. For that, I too, as the chief of the Mikisew Cree First Nation, should have been notified as soon as it occurred.

It is important that we keep the crisis in context, and that context is the constant lack of necessary federal protection of our environment, rights and health in the face of what is now 1.4 trillion litres of liquid waste located near rivers, wetlands, lakes and groundwater that flows downstream to our community and ultimately to the Arctic. Try writing down that number. That's 1,400,000,000,000 litres. That is a lot of zeros.

First, as a bit of background, the Mikisew Cree First Nation is the largest Treaty 8 first nation in the oil sands region. Our traditional territory has a convergence of federal interests.

One, it is home to Canada's largest national park, which is also a UNESCO world heritage site. Two, it contains important transboundary waters. Three, it provides one of North America's most important migratory bird pathways. Four, it includes iconic species like caribou and wood bison. Five, it is made up of a system of lakes, rivers and wetlands that support important fish species and fish habitat.

Six, it contains some of the largest industrial projects in Canada. These projects produce huge amounts of greenhouse gases and all manner of contaminants, including some that are or should be regulated under CEPA, 1999. When Mikisew signed Treaty 8 in 1899, we committed to a partnership with the Crown. We agreed to work in partnership around our land and resources with Canada, and the Crown agreed not to interfere with our ability to exercise our treaty rights and agreed to make sure we have the land and waters we need to maintain our way of life. Those are the rights to be protected under section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982.

Committee members, we are here today to tell you that the promises the Crown made to us are not being met and that Parliament and the federal government must do more.

I must add that I am the chief of the elder who was mentioned by Chief Adam, and today is going to be a very emotional day for the family and for the first nation of the Mikisew Cree. Since this incident happened last May—I was newly elected in October but as a community member—I noticed the spike in cancer in the last year. For a lot of people whose cancer had gone into remission, it also came back to them. There was a recent spike in bile duct cancer, the rarest form of cancer known.

When our people get treated, all it does is speed up death for them. I know that. I've seen it first-hand in one of my best friends when I was by his bedside as he succumbed to this illness that nobody knows how to treat. This is what we encounter in the community.

The spring runoff is the most vital time for our people. As we harvest fish, meat, vegetation and traditional medicine from the land, how can we get assurance that this is okay for our people to sustain their way of life?

The current crisis shows the failures on multiple fronts, and we fear that Kearl is just the tip of the iceberg. We are bracing for even more catastrophic events unless there are real reforms. I think this is not only a Kearl issue; this is about all industries that have tailings ponds. We are putting you on notice today that we will not take this. This will be a one-and-done thing because, as Chief Adam has said, is Canada ready to move us and the Mikisew people to a safe haven?

Summer is coming. There are going to be kids swimming in the lake. All the RMWB does is test the water that comes out of the taps. Who can give me certainty that when these kids go in the water in the springtime and summertime and swim, they're going to be safe? That's what we want as a community.

One of the clearest lessons from this crisis that grew is that it has reconfirmed the AER is a captured regulator that is simply not a trusted partner in protecting federal interests in our community. Living in an indigenous community in the oil sands and downstream from it, I can tell you that it is appalling that Alberta has done so very little to manage the escalating growth and scale of these massive toxic ponds that seep into our natural environment and watersheds. This creates risk to our way of life, to nationally important ecosystems and to the well-being of Canadians.

Let me give you some examples of how the AER is failing us and all of Canada. They had information about this seepage for what now appears to be years without sharing any notice or data with us or the federal government. The AER has had data showing seepage from ponds for years and confirming seepage moving beyond the seepage interception systems but has taken no action. The AER ignored clear findings of the joint review panel for the Kearl project. We still struggle to get sufficient data from the AER regarding the Kearl event, and the AER is allowing Imperial to limit data gathering and sharing.

The federal government's response has been better. Indigenous Services Canada has taken important steps around crisis access to drinking water and mental health supports, and the Environment Minister has listened to us to try to build a path forward that recognizes us as real partners. However, the Kearl crisis shows that Canada's regulatory system is not blameless either. Canada's response to the crisis has been hampered by provincial failures to share information and follow clear findings of the Kearl joint review panel. Why is that?

Also, Canada has had many opportunities to be better prepared but either hasn't taken critical actions or has been too slow to act. Let me highlight a few.

It has been more than five years since the UN's World Heritage Committee requested a risk assessment of tailings ponds. Why?

It has been more than a decade since our communities requested a health study, which could have led to federal protections. That's why the Mikisew people, when we sent a letter to Mr. Prime Minister about a month ago, requested that we get on with the health study, especially with what's going on now and with the recent spike of cancers in the community.

Federally supported scientists have identified seepage from tailings ponds into fish-bearing waters for more than a decade, with no improvements to regulations or laws.

There are existing federal tools, like agreements under the Fisheries Act, that could help with information sharing, but they haven't been actioned.

In 2019, the Teck Frontier joint review panel called on Canada to undertake more monitoring and research in the region because of the threats to the Wood Buffalo National Park world heritage site, but action is still needed.

Committee members, as you investigate the many failures around the Kearl crisis, it is important that you not lose sight of the human cost here. Most if not all of the Mikisew Cree are, for a good portion of their time, occupying and exercising their treaty rights on the land, including the land being impacted by Imperial Oil and by the numerous tailings ponds littered along the Athabasca River.

My members are scared. We have people who are scared to drink their water, and we aren't even sure how long our supply of drinking water is going to last in Fort Chip. People are stressed out. They are worried about their health. You've probably heard about all of the rare cancers in Fort Chip. That's where people's minds go when something like this happens.

There are impacts to our way of life. We've been living off these lands and waters for generations. In Fort Chip, we still eat lots of traditional foods. We need to trust our land and water to fish and hunt. We need that certainty.

The situation has broken that, and it is important for all of you to understand that we are significantly impacted by this issue. Our interests are both immediate and long term. The alarming issue of leaking tailings ponds is of serious concern to the Mikisew people, because governments aren't doing their part to protect our rights and our environment.

Committee members, we wish to ensure that the integrity and health of our environment and our people are protected, and that means protecting the fish-bearing waters in the oil sands and protecting our river systems. It means safeguarding sources of our drinking water and better regulating the massive threats posed by the these huge tailings areas. It means transparent and robust information sharing.

I am sure many of you are wondering what the Mikisew are asking for. We are simply asking for certainty that those leaking tailings ponds will be fully cleaned up, that no contaminants, which may pose any risk to our health and livelihood, will reach our traditional foods and drinking water and that our waters will be safe to drink and use. We are asking for certainty for the health of our people, certainty about the way our land will look and function in the future and certainty that we will be able to continue our way of life on the land and that our rights will be protected as was promised to us in 1899.

All of this can only happen if Canada takes real steps to ensure our community is part of a process in overseeing this urgent situation and is involved in the way oil sands development will continue in our region. It can only happen if there starts to be real accountability and transparency around this situation and all the tailings ponds.

Thank you, committee members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Chief Tuccaro.

Because of the seriousness of the issue, we extended our meeting an extra half hour today. We have a two-and-a-half-hour meeting instead of a two-hour meeting, and we have a panel coming in at 12:15 p.m.

We'll go to one round of questioning of six minutes, starting with Mr. Deltell. I believe he'll be sharing with Ms. Goodridge.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for your important testimony.

Chief Adam, you talk about restoring basic trust. You're right, and that is why all of us are here. That is why all of us around this table asked for this committee meeting. It is our duty and our responsibility to go deep in this problem.

We need to make sure that a very serious accident like this does not happen again and, most importantly, understand the causes and effects that this had on the people affected. That's why I'm going to turn it over right now to the member of Parliament who represents the riding where this all happened, which is Fort McMurray—Cold Lake.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Monsieur Deltell.

To start out, you guys are the first witnesses we're hearing for this study. We'll be hearing from Imperial on Thursday.

I was wondering if you could let us know the first time that Imperial reached out to you and what the content of that communication was.

Perhaps I'll start with you, Chief Adam.

[Chief Allan Adam]

Kearl never reached out to ACFN. The former chief of the Fort McKay First Nation, Mel Grandjamb, who was chief at the time, notified me on February 24. He asked me if I'd heard of the Kearl Lake incident where its tailings pond was leaking into Firebag River. I said no, and he said that I'd better get on it. He asked why nobody notified me, and I said I wasn't aware of this. This was 10:30 at night.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

What year was this?

[Chief Allan Adam]

It was 2023.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Okay.

[Chief Allan Adam]

February 24 of 2023 is when he called me.

When I initiated the action about what was going on, I initiated to my team.... That same night, a text message went out. By the next day, on the 25th, all hell broke loose because of what had happened.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

That's very concerning.

What engagement has Imperial undertaken since this incident became public?

[Chief Allan Adam]

For ACFN, Imperial allowed me and my three staff members to do a site visit. When we went to the site and looked at what was going on, it appeared to me, as an individual—and I can attest to this because I still have the videos in my phone—that not only was the tailings pond leaking in one area, but it was leaking in several areas. You have three different incidents in three areas where seepage is coming through.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Chief Tuccaro, when did Imperial first reach out to you, or did they?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

It would have been around the same time as Chief Adam.

You have to remember too that I just became the chief in October. Until February, I had no knowledge of what transpired before that. We were notified in February as well.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Did you also hear from Chief Grandjamb, or did you hear from Imperial directly?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

No, I did not hear from Chief Grandjamb. We didn't hear from Imperial right away. It was more or less from word of mouth, from the street, so that's why I got my GIR team to question it.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I appreciate that. I think it's important to make sure we have these facts on the record. It is critical, as we're going forward, that we have that information.

I believe you guys all have impact benefit agreements in place with Imperial. Can anyone speak to what communication is supposed to look like as part of an impact benefit agreement?

[Chief Allan Adam]

When it comes to our impact agreement, Imperial was supposed to notify us of everything that happens on their site, and that goes for every oil sands operator out there as well.

For some reason, this had to be breached. They breached their own agreement. We, as the the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation, always uphold our side of the agreement and do not talk badly about the oil sands operators. We gave you guys the trust that was required for them to operate in our region. To withhold information for 10 months and for how many years is absurd and appalling.

Why do you continue to lie to us? What have we done in regard to Canada...that we lied to everybody? We never did anything to anybody. All we want here is to be told the truth in regard to what goes on in our region.

Our region has the largest economic industrial movement going on right now on the globe. Tell me anything different that you guys are going to do in an environmentally safe way. That's all I ask.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll have to go Mr. Duguid now, please.