Environment Committee on April 17th, 2023

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Perhaps I'll turn this over to either Mr. Stuckless or Ms. Luker.

When was the Fort McKay Métis Nation informed of either the first or the second incident?

[Margaret Luker, Director, Sustainability, Fort McKay Métis Nation]

Dan, I'll take this one.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you regarding this today.

Imperial did notify the Fort McKay Métis Nation via an informal email initially when they first sighted some rust-coloured water on site. In communications with Imperial—which we have an impact benefit agreement with and an excellent working relationship with—we received more of a formal notification when everybody else did, around the same time as the environmental protection order was issued.

What I would like to convey about Imperial, because this tends to get a lot of focus, is that this isn't an Imperial issue...with respect to the two incidents we're here for today. The tailings issue is a much broader water.... Oil sands process-affected water is a much bigger issue.

I would like to acknowledge that for us—and I know our sister communities have not had the same experience—Imperial has been very transparent with data sharing, and we have the ability to go on site and do our own monitoring. Mr. Stuckless and I have been onsite to actually see the work that was in progress to clear up the overland spill—which was the whole reason the EPO was issued—when we all found out about the seep. It's the same with the AER. Basically, the EPO was issued before formal notification happened, but informally there was immediate notification that there was rust-coloured water on site. The intent, based on our discussions with Imperial, was always to follow up with that.

I also want to acknowledge—best barrel—that my fear is folks will look to Imperial as the cross to burn among the oil sands companies on oil sands issues. The truth of the matter, as my other colleagues have noted, is that this is a 45-year-old legacy issue and not solely an Imperial issue.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you for that.

Perhaps we can now turn to Willow Lake with the same question.

[Destiny Martin]

We were first notified by the AER in a very general email on February 7, 2023. We did not hear from Imperial Oil until March 8, 2023, with a very general email and a link to their website providing the information regarding the environmental protection order.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I really appreciate this.

I think it's so important to hear directly from the different impacted communities. I know that the harvesting of berries is critically important specifically to many of the first nations and the Métis. I want to thank Willow Lake. They took me out blueberry picking last summer. I still have some wild blueberries left in my freezer from that. They're from land that wouldn't be very different from this land, because they grow in bogs and a muskeggy sort of soil.

My question to you, with the remaining time I have, is this: What questions do you want us to ask Imperial or AER when we have them before committee on Thursday?

[Russell Noseworthy]

What actions are they taking to improve their communications protocols with indigenous communities in our region?

What are they doing to remain a neutral referee between the communities and the oil sands operators? Are they being neutral? I don't know. I think there's a question around the neutrality of the regulator in Alberta. We need an assurance that the regulator is regulating properly according to the regulation and not other directions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Ms. Thompson, you have six minutes.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I'm fine to go, but I thought it was Ms. Taylor Roy's turn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

Go ahead, Ms. Taylor Roy.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not there in person, so I just want to begin by acknowledging that I'm in my hometown of Aurora, where I'm on Anishinabe lands. Here, we are part of the treaty lands of the Mississaugas and Chippewas recognized through Treaty 13 and the Williams Treaties of 1923.

I'm very grateful to everyone who has come out in person to talk to the committee today. It's really been heart-wrenching to listen to the testimonies we've heard so far today.

The questions I would like to ask are more about the impact this has had on your communities in the Métis nations. In the last panel, we heard a little about the mental health impacts of the uncertainty around this. I was wondering if you could expand a little on how this has impacted the Métis nations.

Perhaps we can start with Margaret or Daniel of the Fort McKay Métis Nation.

[Daniel Stuckless]

I was lucky enough to hear some of my colleagues in the last session speak about this, so I won't repeat a lot of what they said.

I will say that Fort McKay Métis Nation is ground zero for the oil sands and that a rupture or tailings problem is first and foremost going to hit us long before it hits anybody else. It is a psychosocial issue that continues to play on the minds of people. It is a constant issue that comes up in every discussion we have with industry, even with industrial folks who do not have the same type of infrastructure and who don't have external tailings ponds, like in situ operators. What are you doing with your waste? How is it being managed? Will you maintain it on site? Can you keep it out of the actual environment so that my area and my lands are protected?

It is a constant. When you add that constant stressor on top of other social issues like residential school survival and the sixties scoop, you have a stressed community that continues to be stressed about lands they've used for centuries or millennia. That is going to be a challenge and why the trust that Fort McKay has established with industry as a whole has to be maintained in order for it to continue to either support responsible development—the key word is responsible—or provide consent through an impact benefit agreement. That has to be first and foremost the goal.

We see that manifest in different ways in the community, and because of the nature of our Métis nation, we don't get the supports needed in our community. They're delivered through non-profits in Fort McMurray. Services are provided directly through first nations services right now. There's nothing the Métis have of their own to provide for their own from the federal or provincial government outside of a small grant here or there.

We are really left on our own, mostly now funding things through our own-source revenue. It is not a great situation, but it is first and foremost a massive conversation piece when it comes to industrial development. You can't drive to Fort McMurray or Edmonton or go anywhere without driving between the tailings ponds. It is minutes on end to pass them. There are end pit lakes with tailings in the bottom. There are tailings ponds. There are active operations. This time of year, there are bird cannons and everything going off in the community lake. It is an onslaught of sensory overload just from the development alone, not to mention day-to-day life. It is difficult being at ground zero there.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I can imagine. Thank you very much for explaining that. It sounds very, very difficult.

Mr. Noseworthy, would you like to add anything to that?

[Russell Noseworthy]

I would ask my colleague here, Tim Clark, to add.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[Dr. Timothy Clark, Principal, Willow Springs Strategic Solutions, Fort McMurray Métis Local 1935]

In response to the question, I would like to make a couple of comments so you can understand the scale and the visual impact of this.

Between the approved and applied for oil sands mines, the Athabasca River north of Fort McMurray will be lined on both sides for nearly 100 kilometres. The Fort McMurray community is based in Fort McMurray, but it's also important to understand that because of the historical nature of the Métis, there are very dense regional connections. People who live in Willow Lake, Anzac or Fort McMurray regularly travel to visit family in Fort Chipewyan and Fort McKay. They harvest in these areas as well.

Dan mentioned the mental health and cumulative impacts of this. It's not just the mental health effects of knowing your regulator is more concerned about protecting the image of the industry and its investment than it is about protecting the health and rights of the people who live in this area. That has an enormous toll every day—not knowing what you don't know. In our community, over the years we have seen a decline in traditional-use practices and the exercise of these rights, in part because of the loss of confidence in the safety and quality of the resources. Are they healthy? Is the water safe? People used to drink water regularly from the rivers. Almost no one does now.

The loss of these practices has a range of human health, mental health, social and community impacts. Land use was traditionally how families connected across generations, how elders spent time with young people and how knowledge was transmitted about your culture, who you are and your way of life. As those practices get lost, that knowledge gets lost. The senses of identity, self, purpose and place are all compromised and undermined, all of which has enormous health, social and community effects. Then people get pushed into underfunded and overtaxed public services that, moreover, are not designed to deal with indigenous people and the specific issues indigenous people face.

We have to understand that it's not just about this one isolated incident. It's about this one isolated incident within a much wider and interconnected system that is constantly undermining the rights, health and interests of the people who reside in this region, particularly indigenous people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I would like to thank the witnesses for coming here, and those of you who are online for your time. If you have any documents that you would like to send to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development, please do so. We can assure you that they will be read.

My questions will be directed to Mr. Stuckless or Ms. Luker, but perhaps to you as well, Mr. Clark, based on your last comments.

When the pandemic broke out, the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers made certain requests in connection with that period. These included requests not to have to comply with the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and not to have to inspect oil exploration sites during this period.

Do you get the impression that industry and Alberta authorities decided that this was the price to pay for prosperity?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

To whom are you addressing the question?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I originally wanted to ask Ms. Luker or Mr. Stuckless.

[Margaret Luker]

I'll jump in, Dan.

Yes, we saw a relaxation of monitoring requirements during COVID, and I think it was too bold. There was a need to manage resources and people. I know we made submission requests around that, because we saw other ways to best address safety issues. There was very much a safety concern around keeping people safe while work kept moving. There were definitely concerns for safety.

However, there was a significant question around the kinds of relaxations they were looking for, because the folks who were going on site and doing monitoring were individuals or organizations going out in small groups, whereas camps were huge spreaders of COVID. We didn't see a lot of requests or requirements around minimizing those. I think there were questions that were fairly asked. Fortunately, we saw some of those restrictions retracted very quickly.

I'll hand it over to Dan, just in case I missed anything.

[Daniel Stuckless]

I'll just tie this back in with the oil sands monitoring program, in addition to what Margaret said about the on-site monitoring.

The joint oil sands monitoring program was told to use its reserve fund, its under-spend, that had built up over time to cover spending in the first COVID year. I was a member of the committee during that time. It seemed really underhanded to undermine the legitimacy and funding while the world was experiencing economic turmoil because of the pandemic. It just seemed to be a convenient excuse to save money and not do work while prioritizing other work.

As Ms. Luker said, it only seemed to apply in some cases. It was unsafe to go out in the bush to measure the size of blueberries, but it was completely okay to work in a fabrication site, on site, building pipe racks or something like that. It was inconsistent in how it was applied to the industry as a whole.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'd like to continue a little bit on the topic by asking you what your reaction is to the blatant violation of your rights, particularly in regard to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. You are being pushed aside.

Earlier, Mr. Stuckless, you told us that you feel like a third-class citizen. It's amazing to hear that. What is your reaction to the violation of your rights?

[Daniel Stuckless]

I just want to clarify that I am not Métis myself, but I work for the Métis community.

In our cases during the pandemic, whether it was the forest fire in Fort McMurray or you name it.... Having worked for both first nations and Métis, I know the departments in Indigenous Services Canada assign emergency personnel to first nations when tragedy occurs or when a storm or an event happens, even naturally, and there is communication between the first responders, the offices responsible for dealing with the emergency and the nation—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Forgive me for interrupting.

We heard that there was no communication, that first nations people had asked to be consulted and were not, and that all proposals for collaboration were rejected. So there is really a problem with respecting the rights of first nations.

I'm going to turn to the people who are here.

How are you reacting to all of this? Basically, how do you see this going forward given that there is blatant disrespect for your rights?

[Dr. Timothy Clark]

I would say—and it has been pointed out in several instances here—that UNDRIP isn't really on the table in Alberta. Dan mentioned that there's a multi-tiered hierarchy of rights that exists within Alberta but also across Canada. If you look at the Yahey decision in B.C. and the lack of action on cumulative effects in Alberta, the substance and quality of your constitutional rights as an indigenous person vary depending on the province in which you live, and I don't think that is either the spirit or the letter of our Constitution. I can't imagine many of the rights we all enjoy as Canadians varying so greatly depending on where we live or on our ethnic background.

This issue, as has been mentioned, is a systematic issue. It's not an issue of just asking, “How are you going to improve your communications protocol, because you should have communicated earlier?” This is a systematic issue that covers a range of areas, like how impact assessment is conducted, how the duty to consult is discharged and how liabilities are managed in the energy sector, where you have this chronic and systematic regulatory capture. That's the term, but it's in the sense that the regulator is constantly pulling the direction of the conversation in the interests of the regulated parties rather than the public interest.

The real question we need to get at here is what can be done to change this in Alberta, because it is a chronic problem and it is one of the underlying issues we need to address. It is not just about changing Alberta or the AER's communications protocol. It's about how to build a regulator that is truly independent of the industry it's regulating and is able to discharge the public interest and hold the public confidence.