Environment Committee on April 20th, 2023

[Helga Shield]

These agreements were negotiated a number of years ago, when the Kearl mine was being started at that time. They're really meant to codify the way we work together, the way we engage, the way we consult. They set a structure for how we meet, how often we meet, the content of those meetings. It includes the environment, discussions, consultation, business development—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Weiler for four minutes, please.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just to move into it here, can you confirm to this committee there was no communication with the Alberta government beyond the independent Alberta Energy Regulator regarding the seepage prior to the environmental protection order?

[Brad Corson]

I don't have that information directly. I know we fulfilled all of our required reporting obligations with the Alberta government. I would have to defer to my colleagues here if there's knowledge about anything specific to the Alberta government beyond the regulator. I'm not sure.

[Simon Younger]

I'm not aware of any.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

During the review process for the Kearl mine, it was recognized, as we talked about today, that there's a higher permeability in the proposed area for the external tailings area and that the seepage could impact surface waters. The joint panel also noted that the seepage, if unmitigated, will likely impact surface water bodies to the north, such as the Firebag River, which makes the draining control systems or overflow systems very critical.

An article that was published by CBC News in April 2019 reported that Imperial was using “an older type of leak detection system that is not as sensitive as the newer, high-definition models”.

Imperial has confirmed that seepage occurred in shallow layers that are not protected by the detection system.

Can somebody explain what types of tools, if any, you are currently required to use to prevent the release of toxic chemicals into the broader environment?

[Brad Corson]

I'll ask Simon to talk about the additional measures we've put in place since we've learned that there was the seepage at a shallower level.

[Simon Younger]

First of all, as to the questions of design, you're absolutely right. Seepage was anticipated in the design of our Kearl tailing system. That's an industry standard. We have a seepage interception system. That's exactly why it's there and what it is installed to do. That concept is proven, and that's conventional technology that we have employed.

In terms of the question around monitoring, the way we're doing that is through monitoring wells and measuring and detecting the seepage. It was always intended that the seepage interception system would evolve and adapt as the monitoring dictated.

What we've done, and I think it's been mentioned a couple of times now, is that we've installed over 140 new monitoring and interception wells. We now have pumping at all of the four isolated locations where we detected the seepage, so the seepage is now being mitigated, and we've installed over 400 metres of trenching to also help intercept the seepage. These are very industry-standard and proven technologies that we're employing.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

In your reporting, you mentioned there was both mechanical failure as well as a process failure that took place here. My question is this: How often are the external tailings areas checked by staff?

[Brad Corson]

I'll let Simon continue with the discussion. What that refers to, though, is the drainage pond overflow incidents.

Maybe you can describe that, Simon.

[Simon Younger]

The failures that you've described relate to the drainage pond that overflowed. I want to be absolutely crystal clear, and I made the same comment recently, that the overflow should never had occurred. That was our mistake. We have learned from that error and we've made adjustments at the drainage pond in question and also at our other drainage ponds—

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

I'm sorry; my time is running out.

How often is the check?

[Simon Younger]

Is the question how often surveillance is undertaken in that area?

It's taken routinely, regularly on every shift, multiple times per day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thanks.

Ms. Michaud, you have the floor for two minutes.

You have time for one question.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to give my time to Ms. May.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

All right.

Ms. May, you have two minutes.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

Mr. Corson, I won't ask you any rhetorical questions.

I think that you approached this evidence today with the impression that you had a communications problem.

Are you prepared to say quite clearly, publicly, that the problem is a pollution problem and that communication issues are quite secondary to the pollution problem? Do you agree?

[Brad Corson]

What I would say is that we had not only a communications problem with these two incidents; we also had some operational problems. We've been addressing those now through some design and equipment enhancements as well as procedural enhancements.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I want to return to a question that my colleague MP McPherson asked you, and we didn't get an answer. I think there could be a range of answers. I've looked on your website, by the way, and you said that we could find a concentration of chemical contaminants below ground on your website. Certainly, if it's there, it's not easy to find.

I want to ask now, of any of the witnesses from Imperial, what are the concentrations of toxic contaminants below ground now? You can use a range for arsenic, for naphthenic acids and for polyaromatic hydrocarbons. We know that they exceeded guidelines. What would be the range that you found in recent water sampling for those three substances?

[Brad Corson]

I don't have those details available to me, but we're happy to make them available to this committee.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

I think that's probably all of my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 30 seconds for a statement.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

In that case, I would also like to know when you plan to consider that it's a poor idea to continue pumping toxic effluents into a tailings pond that you know is leaking.

[Brad Corson]

We believe our operation is sound. We have made some design changes and we are confident that the system is appropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Ms. McPherson is next.