Evidence of meeting #58 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was trust.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We're over our time, but please answer that question, Mr. Corson. We'll then go to Mr. Weiler.
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Imperial Oil Limited
Yes, we have an extensive log of all of the notifications and engagements that we had with the indigenous communities. We made initial notifications, I believe, on May 19. That was through our established processes with each of the communities and protocols to notify their environment committee.
As I said earlier, those communications fell short because they were not escalated to the leader.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
If I understood it correctly, what Mrs. Goodridge wanted to see was some documents of proof of communications and so on.
Go ahead, Mr. Weiler.
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Imperial Oil Limited
Yes, we're happy to provide those.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I also want to thank the witnesses for coming to speak here today and answering the many questions that we have on a process that we know has lost a lot of trust.
The first question I'd like to ask is.... The Alberta Energy Regulator maintains that in events like this, when there are these persistent seepages, it's the duty of the owner of the operation to inform the public. I'm wondering if you would agree with that statement.
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Imperial Oil Limited
Certainly we want to be transparent with all of our stakeholders about our operations. We endeavour to provide the appropriate communications, especially as we have gathered more information. We have been making those available to all of the communities. We've been providing regular updates, not just to the AER; we've been posting those updates on our website so that information is available to everyone in the public.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Given that Imperial has known of the seepage taking place since at least May of last year, is there an estimate of how much of the water has actually seeped since then?
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Imperial Oil Limited
We are still in the process of calculating the volumetric estimates. What I can tell you is that for the four seepage locations, the footprint, if you will, is about one hectare.
The reason there's a lot of complexity in the calculation is that it's more than calculating just the fluids that are on the surface; it also involves estimating the subsurface flow of water and fluids. That is a much more complex process. It's very transient and variable in nature. We're doing extensive modelling.
Again, what I can tell you today is that the footprint was about one hectare.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you. It would be great to have that information, given that this has been going on for almost a year at this point.
We know that Imperial has met many times with the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation as well as the Mikisew Cree since the events took place in May of last year. Why did Imperial not notify either nation of the leakage of industrial wastewater? They are downstream in the watershed and they are drinking the water and eating the food that depends on the water.
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Imperial Oil Limited
We care deeply about the relations with our indigenous communities, the first nations, the Métis and the communities you referred to. We did make initial notifications to those communities right from the outset.
Where we fell short and where we are improving our processes is that those notifications were only to the environment committees for those communities. Those notifications did not include the chiefs and the senior leadership of the community. That was a mistake on our part. Given the situation and the significance of the concern, we absolutely should have picked up the phone and spoken directly with the chiefs and the leadership, so we've corrected our process to ensure that it does not happen again.
Since then, as I mentioned in my statement, I have met with several of the chiefs and the presidents.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you.
If, in this case, the downstream community was a city like Calgary, do you think you would have notified the city?
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Imperial Oil Limited
We would have followed the same process. It has nothing to do with what city is downstream or what community is downstream. We certainly feel an obligation to keep all of our stakeholders and all of our neighbouring communities aware and notified.
As I said, at the very beginning of the incidents, we did make a notification, but we failed in escalating that notification within those communities. Then we also failed in providing regular updates as time went on as we gathered more information about the incident. We provided that information to the AER, but we should have, in parallel, provided it to the indigenous communities. We will do that in the future. We're doing that on a regular basis now.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you.
You mentioned that your testing shows that there was no impact to wildlife, fish or drinking water; however, your own investigation, which was shared with the Alberta Energy Regulator in August of 2022, found samples of contamination that exceeded the environmental guidelines for things like iron, arsenic, hydrocarbons and sulphites. The Alberta Energy Regulator mentioned that hydrocarbons and naphthenic acids were found in a fish-bearing lake. We know that the nations have taken pictures of wildlife tracks leading into the lease area.
Given that indigenous groups have been kept entirely in the dark of the impacts that you found, why should local communities, indigenous groups or Canadians writ large have any faith in your assessment that there's no impact to wildlife, fish or drinking water?
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Imperial Oil Limited
The information that we gathered right from the beginning confirms that there have been no adverse impacts. There have been some excursions in the data, but often that can be attributed to variations in background levels. We are committed to gathering extensive data and ensuring that the situation is accurate and that we continue to not have an impact on fish populations or wildlife.
We have employed contractors that are partly indigenous-owned to perform assessments in the area of the seepage from a wildlife impact standpoint and a vegetation impact standpoint, and then separate water monitoring. Those results continue to support the statements I made.
Liberal
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Before you start my time, I would like you to answer the question I asked a little earlier. Can we proceed as though we have two different panels so that we have the same speaking time during each hour?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Personally, I'm sticking with the motion that the Committee passed at the beginning of the parliament. So after the second round, it will be a third round of five minutes and two and a half minutes.
If the committee agrees with your proposal, we could do it, but I see that the Conservatives do not agree. There does not seems to be any interest either on the Liberal side. I will therefore stick to the existing formula. Unfortunately, this is my decision.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
That's fine, thank you.
Since it's my turn to speak, I will take the opportunity to move the motion I tried to move earlier. That was my mistake. I did not know that we could not move a motion on a point of order.
Since Ms. Goodridge has asked the witnesses to table documents, I assume the Conservatives will support my motion. It has been distributed to the members of the committee, but I will read it again.
I move that:
That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), the Committee require that any requests for documentation made to witnesses be complied with and that a copy be provided no later than 5:00 p.m. on Friday, May 5, 2023.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Congratulations, your motion was adopted.
You now have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.
As you may have heard earlier, I'm filling in for my colleague, who is the environment critic for our party, but I'm the climate change critic for our party, so this is an issue that I'm very interested in. I am very concerned about what has happened in Alberta, so thank you for coming forward and explaining it to us. The people who are affected by these events deserve an explanation.
Mr. Corson, I heard a lot of apologies in your opening remarks, a mea culpa, and a willingness to do better next time. You seem to blame it mostly on a lack of communication. Perhaps you don't take enough responsibility for the events. In this sense, I wonder if you consider that your company has a legal and moral responsibility towards the communities that suffer the consequences of this technical irresponsibility.
Do you or do you not consider that you have a moral and legal obligation? If so, what agreements do you rely on? Are there any agreements or internal documents that prove this? Do you have agreements with the different communities that give you this responsibility, but also the responsibility to inform them when events such as those that have happened in the last few months occur?
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, Imperial Oil Limited
Thank you for the question and for your comments.
First I would acknowledge your statement that people deserve an explanation of this situation. That's why I'm happy to be here today. I want to share our understanding of the situation; our plans as we go forward; our apology, of course, right from the outset; and especially our commitment to learn from this, to do better and to ensure that it doesn't happen again.
We do take responsibility for the notification process. I am deeply saddened and apologetic that we did not fulfill the moral obligations we have with these very important indigenous communities. We have spent decades building relations with these indigenous communities. It's horrible that we have shattered the trust with them. We want to do everything we can to rebuild it. We have agreements with each of the neighbouring communities around communication protocols, ongoing engagements and consultations. As I mentioned earlier, although we made some initial notifications, we fell short in the spirit of those agreements and those expectations. That's what we're working hard to rebuild. We're committed to it.