Environment Committee on April 20th, 2023

[Brad Corson]

I don't know whether I have any very specific examples, given the time we have. These are complex matters. However, we are continuing to look at additional ways to treat the water and to manage the water, and that process continues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We will go back to Mr. McLean now for five minutes.

[A voice]

We're going back to Ms. Goodridge.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Oh, I see. Go ahead, Laila.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

No worries. Thank you.

I want to clarify something. Regarding the original request I had regarding communications, you said you had logs. I believe that Mr. McLean asked for the actual testimony. I would like the content of the communications so that we can see it.

I also want to ensure that it includes the local municipality. While Fort Chipewyan is a predominantly indigenous community, there are non-indigenous people who live in that area. As well, it is the Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo that operates the water treatment plant. The regional municipality operates a lot of those pieces. If that isn't included, I want to ensure that we're also including them. That's important for me.

Can you confirm that's part of...?

[Brad Corson]

Yes, we had extensive engagements with the municipality. Ultimately, they declared that the drinking water is safe. We're happy to share with you the engagements we've had with them.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

That would be great.

There's one big question that's still in the community, especially in response to the town hall that didn't really go well, and that's being very polite. There are still a lot of questions and a lot of people who want to share their concerns, their fears and their thoughts.

Is there a willingness on the part of Imperial to go back to Fort Chipewyan to have a more extensive town hall, not limiting it to just an hour but staying until people have said their piece?

[Brad Corson]

Thanks for asking.

We obviously learned a lot in that town hall. We went there not just to share information but also to listen and to understand concerns. Understandably, a lot of anger was expressed. It goes back to what you and others have raised, which is that there is a lot of fear and lack of trust. These are things that are very personal to them and to the community.

It was a very difficult town hall, but we are very committed to continuing those engagements, which maybe there are already plans for. I might ask Helga, who's coordinating that for us, to comment.

[Helga Shield]

We've put forward a proposed schedule to each of the seven communities in the last week or two. We want to work with them to understand what would work best for them.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Can you list which seven communities?

[Helga Shield]

Sure.

In Fort Chipewyan, it's Athabasca Chipewyan, Mikisew and the Métis group. There are the first nation group and the Métis group out of Fort McKay, and the first nation group and the Métis group out of Fort McMurray, which are the 468 and 1935.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Will there be a general town hall and engagement in the city of Fort McMurray for non-indigenous people who also—shocker—do traditional harvesting and hunt and fish on those same lands?

[Helga Shield]

I think our goal is to work with communities and understand what forums work best for them, so we've put forward a proposal. We're seeking feedback on what forum works the best and we'll go forward from there.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

If there's one piece of advice I could possibly give you, it's don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Sooner rather than later is probably going to serve you in the long term.

I think that's possibly one of the biggest lessons learned in all of this. There was such a vacuum of information that it led to rumours and to an immense amount of fear. That fear went far beyond just the borders of these communities. This has rippled into other communities. There are ACFN members and Mikisew members who live all across the country who were fearful and scared for their family members.

There are people all across my area who make their living in this industry and are proud of the work that this industry has done. They were questioning what they've been doing because for the first time in a long time, they were really let down. It's nice to hear you here saying you're sorry. It would be nice to see you in all of the different communities doing the same thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

There are 10 seconds left, so we'll tack it on to the next time.

Mr. McLeod is next.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Imperial for presenting today. I certainly appreciate hearing you.

My name is Michael McLeod. I'm the MP for the Northwest Territories. I'm from the region called the Dehcho. I belong to the Dehcho First Nations. I'm Métis. We're recognized as the “big river people”. In the aboriginal language, “dehcho” means “big river”. We've always had concerns about what has gone on upstream, from the time the first logging operations started and farms and everything else put stuff in the waterways, because we're downstream from it.

I appreciate hearing you talk about being concerned and about how people deserve an explanation, but for years and years the north has not had input into what's going on in the Alberta regulatory system, as you probably know. With what's happening now with the leaks from the tailing ponds, people are very concerned. I'm hearing lots of comments and getting calls.

As you said, we need to restore the trust. I think you know as well as I do that indigenous people do not trust government—any level of government—and they certainly do not trust oil companies. If we're going to make any headway moving forward, I think the actions will determine how we rebuild the trust. Many things have to happen, but because we can't get any information and Imperial has not reached out into the Northwest Territories, I think that will be difficult.

I grew up on the Mackenzie River, or the Dehcho. I swam in the river. I drank water from the river. I hunted on that river. I'm very concerned, as is every community down the Mackenzie Valley. Would Imperial Oil support having a meeting in the Northwest Territories to talk about your operations, talk about your future plan, talk about this breach and talk about a cleanup and about whether they'd provide the financial support to have that happen?

That's my first question.

[Brad Corson]

Thanks for the question.

We have great respect for the people of the Northwest Territories. It's unfortunate that the information hasn't been made available to you. As I've said, we want to be very transparent with what we've learned from this incident, transparent with the ongoing data that we're gathering and our plans to correct the situation as we go forward, so we would be happy to engage with you in making that information available. I'd take your guidance as to the best way to do that. If there is a desire to have a meeting, we would entertain that.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you. I appreciate that answer.

I think we really have to look at a number of things in order to move forward. First are some of the short-term actions, such as this. I think the minister has made some good decisions about a working group. As you've indicated, we certainly can't change what happened in the past, but as I sit here and listen to people talking about how they've done their part, everybody seems to be kind of passing it off, in a way, to somebody else, whether it's communication, whether it's testing or whether it's research. That seems to be the norm when it comes to dealing with what's happening in Alberta and how things are being treated.

I worry a lot about cumulative effects, because everything that goes in the water, whether it's in B.C. or Alberta, comes right past my doorstep. Now that the minister is looking at this, and you've indicated that you support it and you think it's positive and you're willing to do more, would you be willing to participate in a cumulative effects study, if that was something that came about?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Be brief, please, because we're over time.

[Brad Corson]

Yes, certainly we're happy to participate in a study. I think that anything that can improve understanding and build confidence in our communities regarding the impacts of our industry is a positive thing. We support participating.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Madame Michaud, you have the floor.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Last Monday, Chief Adam said that even after two months of front-page reporting, they still don't know exactly what happened. As far as they know, no one has been fired and no disciplinary action or penalties have been imposed, either by the companies or the government.

That is indeed what we are seeing. Mr. Corson, in your opening remarks, you said that you felt you had a certain responsibility to protect the environment. We know that the extraction, production and consumption of oil and gas involve risks of leakage and represent fairly significant dangers for the environment. Do you think that regulations for the oil and gas industry should be more stringent? You said:

I, alongside all Canadians, expect Imperial to meet or exceed the environmental protection standards set by provincial and federal regulators.

Are we to understand that you agree with increased regulation and Imperial's adherence to those standards, as well as being willing to accept responsibility for leaks like the one we experienced?

[Brad Corson]

Yes, there are a couple of comments that I would make.

First of all, we have great respect for both the federal and the provincial regulators. We certainly endeavour to follow all regulations and not just meet those standards but exceed those standards.

In terms of whether we have the right level of regulation, I think that's a question for the federal regulators and the provincial regulators to assess.

What I would say is that I have spent nearly 40 years in this industry and I've worked all around the globe. My experience is that Canada has some of the strictest regulations anywhere in the world. That doesn't mean they can't be better, and we should continue to endeavour to make them better and make them the best they can be, but I want to just provide the perspective that we have a very strong foundation here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Madam McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses, again, for their testimony.

Mr. Corson, you said at the beginning of your testimony that you're disappointed in your performance. You're disappointed in the performance of Imperial Oil.

We know that Imperial Oil lists, and this is a direct quote, “safety, health, and environmental performance” first in the list of business performance measures that it considers when determining compensation.

Imperial Oil has said that it—and I quote again—“Delivered strong safety performance and effective enterprise risk management” and “Demonstrated clear commitment to sustainability” in 2022. That was part of how it was determined that you would be able to double your salary. It was reported in The Globe and Mail today that in 2022 your salary doubled to $17.34 million annually.

Do you feel that your performance met the standard of “demonstrated clear commitment to sustainability”? Do you feel that your performance “delivered strong safety performance and effective enterprise risk management”?