Environment Committee on April 24th, 2023

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you very much.

In that case, I want to start my questions with the environment minister from the Northwest Territories.

Thank you so much for being here with us virtually.

I want to put to you, Minister, some of the testimony that this committee received on March 30, 2010, from the late world-renowned water scientist, Dr. David Schindler. I recommend that the committee read the Hansard of that date for its study.

He said at that time to this committee, referring to detailed analysis he did of water in and around the oil sands, “We...found high concentrations of several contaminants.” He went on to say that in reviewing this, his conclusion was that the industry was “adding substantially to the contaminant burdens of the Athabasca River by both airborne and waterborne pathways.”

He also concluded back then, 13 years ago, that our evidence from the National Pollutant Release Inventory “indicate[d] that oil sands companies should be charged under the Fisheries Act.”

It's not entirely a hypothetical question to the minister. I'm wondering, given the current situation, if you believe that we should be pursuing charges because of contamination with effects downstream in the Northwest Territories.

[Shane Thompson]

Thank you.

I actually have Dr. Kelly here, and I'd like her to answer that. She was part of Dr. Schindler's team.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Can you be fairly brief, please?

[Dr. Erin Kelly]

Thank you.

From my perspective in working with Dr. Schindler, we have a tool in the transboundary agreement and we need to use it. It needs to be implemented the way it was designed. We need to understand and to be communicated with so that we can make decisions about whether risks are going to be impacting the Northwest Territories. That's what we've been discussing with the Alberta government and with the federal government as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'll give my last turn to Ms. May.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Ms. May, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I thank my colleague.

I do want to ask Mr. Pushor a question.

In relation to what's happening at the Kearl mine, we've heard words like “leak” and “spill” being used. You used the word “seep”, and I will underscore that I think that is probably the right word. I just looked quickly for a definition of “seep”. According to the dictionary, it's when something would flow or leak slowly through porous material, so I think it is the more accurate word.

Is it fair to suggest that the tailings ponds themselves are not containing the material within them, because the material seeps out along the sides of the ponds, as opposed to what Imperial claimed would happen in the environmental assessment hearings back in the day, which was that it would go down to the bottom and therefore be able to be handled by the containments they had in mind?

It's seeping out through the sides. Is that accurate?

[Laurie Pushor]

Well, it's not a failure in the structure or the dam but a failure in the containment system that has caused this issue. We have approved Imperial's mitigations to repair and replace those containment areas. We'll watch very carefully this spring to ensure that they're working the way they're expected to.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

But you heard me just put forward the evidence from Dr. David Schindler—actual scientific studies done in 2008 and 2009—that made it clear that we were already seeing tailings materials in the Athabasca River. This is now more than a decade of seepage of toxic material into the Athabasca River.

Does the regulator have any position on when the pollution of the Athabasca River and the surrounding areas is too much and the tailings ponds should be closed until they have determined how to contain the pollution?

[Laurie Pushor]

The tailings approvals were all part of the mine approvals as they were put in place. There are limits on the amount of tailings that can be produced and in place at any time across all of the mines. There's collaborative regional water monitoring in those rivers. That regional monitoring is done by ECCC, Alberta Environment and communities in that space. That data is available for all to look at and form their conclusions from.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Ms. May. I remember that study very well, and Dr. Schindler's testimony.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

You were in the room when he gave that evidence, as was Mike Lake and an MP I've lost track of—Justin Trudeau.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Dr. Schindler did mention that the contamination was coming from the atmosphere.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

And the tailings ponds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I don't know; I'm not sure about that.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Well, it's in Hansard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Next is Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Pushor, you mentioned that you had those results from the deep groundwater monitoring. I'd like you to please prepare those and send them to the committee in writing, if you wouldn't mind.

Mr. Pushor, are all tailings ponds leaking?

[Laurie Pushor]

I'm sorry. I'm at that point where I need to write it down if I make a commitment to return something. I apologize.

All the tailings ponds have extensive monitoring programs to evaluate what's happening along each of them.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Are they leaking?

[Laurie Pushor]

As part of this work, once we understood what was happening with the Kearl project, we asked all mines to do an assessment of their facilities and determine whether there was any indication that anything like this might be happening elsewhere. We've recently received all of that information, and our team of experts is evaluating it—