Environment Committee on May 4th, 2023

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

With regard to my point, Mr. Chair, could you, or the analysts or the clerk, read something back that Mr. Ehsassi must be referring to here that says that anybody in the NDP, the Bloc, the Liberals or the Conservatives has said anything negative about the analysts' work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

He's not saying that, as far as I understand.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I'm not saying that you said anything expressly negative about them, but the—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I have a point of order again, Mr. Chair.

If Mr. Ehsassi wants to back up anything he's saying here as far as criticisms of the work that's presented to us—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Colleagues, the chair has the floor.

Mr. Ehsassi is not suggesting that anyone said—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, what you think Mr. Ehsassi is saying and what Mr. Ehsassi is saying are two different things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Somebody has to be an arbiter here.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

What Mr. Ehsassi is saying is that the fact that it took six or seven meetings suggests that—

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I'm not going to divulge what was said in camera, but I think the only conclusion one can come to is that they don't know what they're doing if it has taken six weeks.

All I mean to say is that, if anyone does—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I get it. Mr. Lake, you're saying—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Excuse me, colleagues.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. McLean, I had a point of order before you—sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I think these are all points of debate. None of these are points of order.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I actually have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Everything else is a point of debate. We're all debating what Mr. Ehsassi means.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

What I keep hearing from the members opposite is that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Excuse me, Mr. Ehsassi. Ms. Taylor Roy has what I hope is a point of order.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

My point of order is simply that, when you are making a ruling, when you are saying something, I believe that members are supposed to respect that. My point of order is that I don't see that happening right now. I'd just like to point that out and ask all members, when you are talking and making a response, to wait until you are done.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Ehsassi, continue. Then we'll go to Mr. Kurek, Mr. Bachrach, Mr. Deltell, Mr. McLean and Mr. Duguid.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I'd like to plead with every member here that surely it's appreciated there are some disagreements in so far as the substance of this report is concerned, but you have to find a way forward. I'm sure that constantly making sure that this report is not adopted is not in the best interest of anyone on this committee. I just say this as someone who has never seen anything this dysfunctional in the eight years that I have sat on many committees. I'm hoping that everyone will decide to see the light.

Even if you can't agree on things, if someone does come up with a suggestion, there's no point in trying to bring him down, question his motives and say that he has no right to say that because this is the first time he's sitting here. Surely, we can agree to that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Kurek.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm not sure what we're in would be considered uncharted territory. I'd have to reference the vast array of parliamentary proceedings that have predated the happenings of today, but certainly some of the accusations and insinuations that have been made by the members opposite are very concerning.

For everybody watching, the move to do this in public is unusual. Generally, the standard practice is there are conversations about work the committee does. There are the analysts, the clerk and translators, a whole host of people to put reports together. Reports are in the name of members of Parliament. We work together to put together these reports.

There is often disagreement. Disagreement, quite frankly, is okay. In our democratic system, it's actually key. When we have a circumstance where there is that disagreement, that's when generally a vote is called and a path is decided by a majority.

I find it troubling—and I would reference we may be setting a precedent here—that a committee would limit the opposition's ability to meaningfully engage in subject matter that we find very, very important. We have a report that has been before us for more than a year. During that time there have been a host of other studies that have actually taken place, so to suggest somehow that members of the opposition are the reason we have seen this report delayed is simply a rewriting of history.

Look at a number of weeks ago when we had a very important study that all members of this committee agreed to.

To Mr. Ehsassi, who is joining this committee for the first time since I've sat here as the vice-chair, we had an incredibly productive study. For other accusations that have been made, I'm concerned that the precedent that is being set is to basically say that the voices of members of Parliament, and by virtue of that those of our constituents, are not able to be heard.

I don't expect that everybody agrees. I would love for everybody to agree with those of us in east central Alberta, but I know full well there is a wide variety of opinions other than that of those whom I represent.

Mr. Chair, as we come to address the motion that would basically adopt this report and move on to recommendations, I would caution every member here. For members of Parliament in the committee process this is one of those opportunities where we can have that engagement, where we can make sure that we look at the evidence, look at the facts, look at what government has done on any range of issues and ensure that we make that case to our colleagues. Then a decision is made one way or the other.

Tempers have flared—certainly in the House of Commons today—and there have been a few references to that. I could get very political on that if there was—

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I believe I was admonished for referencing things that happened in camera, and I believe that Mr. Kurek just did the same thing.