Environment Committee on Sept. 19th, 2023

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to address that too.

First, welcome, Michael and Branden, to the committee—Mr. Kram and Mr. Leslie. You've been here before. I was here with you, but welcome back. It's nice to have you all here.

I want to address that, because I think the moratorium on renewables is having a major impact on what we are trying to accomplish as a government in this committee. We have targets, and I know that you and the opposition often bring up the fact that we're not meeting our targets rapidly enough.

You also mentioned the price on pollution and how that is hurting Canadians because it is costing them more. Often, there's a number quoted for how much it will cost a farmer in 2030, but that doesn't take into account any possible accommodations that any individual might make in their operations. When I see a province blocking the potential for energy sources that could save farmers and individuals in that province a lot of money because they will reduce their greenhouse gas emissions and thereby not pay as much in the price on pollution, which is the entire objective of the price on pollution....

We can't just look at the way things are now and what people are using in terms of energy and say, “Oh, they're going to keep using that until 2030, and therefore it's going to cost them $150,000.” The whole intention—and what economists and experts around the world have said—is that this price signal for the price on pollution will help incentivize companies to offer alternatives. That is what the renewable energy sector in Alberta is doing.

To see a province then block that possibility and that option for people to have a lower-emission source of energy and force them to pay a price on pollution is, in my mind, of grave concern to our committee. We want to help Canadians. We want to help Canadians and our economy, and we want to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. That cannot be done if provinces work in complete opposition to what we're trying to do and actually stop any alternatives from being developed.

I think that is one of the reasons that Mr. Bachrach's motion is very relevant. It's not singling out a province; I think Alberta singled itself out when it introduced that prohibition on renewables, quite frankly, and we are simply responding to their action.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am keen to get to a vote on this matter at this meeting.

There have been a number of questions asked around the utility of this motion. I want to assure my Conservative friends that the intention is not to harass anyone. I take some umbrage at the use of that word. The intention is to hold people accountable and to get answers for Canadians. That's very much the role of this committee.

There are two separate matters that are covered by the motion I've put forward. The first has to do with recent statements from leaders in the oil and gas industry, particularly Mr. Kruger. Everyone at this table, and I think across the country, knows that the oil and gas sector is absolutely vital to meeting Canada's stated greenhouse gas emissions reduction targets and our international commitments as well.

To date, what we've heard from Canada's major oil and gas companies has been an acknowledgement of that role and indeed a commitment to work toward meeting those ambitions, notwithstanding the fact that emissions from the sector continue to rise and the progress has been far too slow. Now what we see in Mr. Kruger's comments is essentially a throwing in of the towel and a signal to future generations of Canadians that the oil and gas sector isn't serious about meeting the imperative of the global climate crisis and that it's more interested in making short-term profits.

Young Canadians especially deserve to hear directly from Mr. Kruger exactly what he means by that and what his understanding is of the predicament that we find ourselves in as a country and as a planet.

With regard to the Alberta government, I think very similarly. There's the recognition that provinces are vital if we are to meet our national objectives when it comes to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Here's a province that has the best opportunities in Canada for the generation of renewable power. The progress that we've seen in Alberta is absolutely spectacular when it comes to renewable energy. A real boom has taken place there, yet right when things are heading in the direction we need to see them go and when the province of Alberta is on the brink of making a major contribution to the fight against climate change, we see a provincial government slamming on the brakes. I think that's something that is alarming for many Canadians.

I think the provincial government should be here at this committee to answer some basic questions around its justification for the moratorium on renewable energy development in that province and what it means for the larger national context.

Certainly my intention in bringing forward this motion is a productive one. I think it is complementary to, but different from, the motion that was brought before the natural resources committee. The two committees have different mandates. I can read out the mandates if you like, but I know we're short on time. That committee very much focuses on the natural resources industry sectors, while this committee focuses on issues of environmental sustainability and sustainable development.

I hope and trust that the members of this committee will keep their questioning and their comments to the scope of our mandate. Between the two committees, we can provide a comprehensive picture for Canadians of how these recent developments impact our ability as a country to tackle what I think—and, I believe, what others around this table believe very strongly—is the most serious issue facing Canadians and people around the world.

I'll leave my comments at that.

Mr. Chair, I hope we can get to a vote on this motion before our time runs out here.

I thank you for allowing me the time to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you.

That brings me back to the motion from the natural resources committee.

Can you please read what the motion was? We don't even know what we're referring to, because we say, “Well, we just—”

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I will do that later if you wish. I don't feel obliged—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I think we should do it now—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

—because it's on the amendment. We don't even know if it's in the original.... Maybe we're amending something that is—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No. You have this. This was distributed in both languages. If I read it, it's really for the benefit of the people at home.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

But no one on this committee knew about this natural resources motion until we entered here—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I understand, but right now—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

No one knows, and no one in the public knows about it either—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I understand—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

—so we need to know what we're comparing it to and why we're voting on this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

In my view, it's not to decide whether we invite the Minister of Energy and Minerals. That's a very small amendment.

I will read it later if you wish, but right now I think many people on the committee want to get to a vote on whether we invite Brian Jean to our committee.

We'll go to Madame Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like us to vote on this amendment, which, as you just said, is very short.

If we want to get back into a discussion, I too will have an amendment to propose later. It has to do with the energy regulator to preserve what I might call the environmental sovereignty of the Province of Alberta.

For now, can we proceed? If not, it will be my turn to begin a major presentation of the motion and tell you why I need to delete the passage in question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Seeing no other speakers, I think we can vote on the amendment that we also call the Minister of Energy and Minerals of Alberta, Brian Jean.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Can we have a recorded vote?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes. That's what we're doing.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Then we will be inviting Mr. Jean.

Now we'll go to the main motion.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'd like to move an amendment, Mr. Chair.

My amendment is to delete from the motion the part that deals with the Alberta energy regulator.

I will go back to the French text: “que le Comité de l'environnement et du développement durable invite Rich Kruger, PDG de Suncor, à expliquer pourquoi leurs entreprises abandonnent les objectifs climatiques qu'elles s'étaient fixés antérieurement face à l'urgence climatique”. After the comma that follows, I propose to delete “ainsi qu'à inviter l'organisme de réglementation de l'énergie de l'Alberta, lors d'une réunion distincte, à expliquer sa décision d'imposer un moratoire sur les projets d'énergie renouvelable”. Consequently, in the previous comments, we should also delete the whereas statement that specifically talks about the Government of Alberta.

This motion contains—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

One moment, Ms. Pauzé. Do you want to delete the rest of that part, “malgré l'essor de l'industrie dans la province”?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

No, no.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.