Evidence of meeting #80 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was health.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Safe Environments Directorate, Department of Health
As my colleague mentioned, the authority on the budget for the Canada water agency would lie with Environment and Climate Change Canada. They would be better positioned to respond to that question.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
So, I'll keep my question about the budget for later.
Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
No, you used up all the time you were allotted.
Mr. Bachrach, you have two and a half minutes, please.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a question for Health Canada.
In 2019, Health Canada changed its guidelines around manganese levels in Canadian drinking water. This has implications for many small municipalities that have higher concentrations of manganese. I wonder if, prior to changing the guidelines, Health Canada did any analysis around the number of municipalities that may be out of compliance with the new guidelines, and what the cost implications would be for those municipalities.
Director General, Safe Environments Directorate, Department of Health
Thank you very much for the question.
The update of the manganese drinking water quality guideline was done in very close collaboration with provinces and territories because of implications for small communities and regions across Canada that may have higher levels of manganese, which may present challenges to them. In establishing the drinking water quality guidelines, that aspect was certainly considered to ensure that meeting the maximum acceptable concentration is achievable across the country. That again was done in close collaboration with all provinces and territories.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I guess the challenge here, and this something I frequently hear from small communities, is that the government changes requirements, but often that change doesn't come with any corresponding funding so that these municipalities can address the new requirements. This is right across the board, whether it's municipally owned airports or fire departments or drinking water and waste-water infrastructure.
The challenge is that some small communities don't actually have water treatment plants because they have clean water that comes right out of the ground and they're able to meet the other health guidelines without too much of a problem. Now you change the manganese guidelines, and all of a sudden they have a challenge on their hands that potentially requires them to build a water treatment plant that cost tens of millions of dollars. These are communities where their entire tax roll is just a few million dollars per year.
The larger question for the federal government is this: How can you expect communities to meet these guidelines, given their limited financial tools and given the fact that the implications for their budgets are totally unrealistic?
Director General, Safe Environments Directorate, Department of Health
Thank you for the question.
Funding for infrastructure is beyond Health Canada's mandate, but certainly the Health Canada drinking water quality guidelines are reflective of available science, and when they're changed, they're changed as a result of a known and scientific understanding of the risk to Canadians. Therefore, the guidelines would need to be addressed to that new science to protect Canadians.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Is there a conversation with infrastructure in that process?
Director General, Safe Environments Directorate, Department of Health
There is.
Liberal
October 26th, 2023 / 12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the House of Commons. We thank you very much for your service to Canada, each in your own department. We greatly appreciate it.
A little while ago, we talked about the water problem at Bagotville, which is of concern to all of us. I would like to remind you that, on October 6, the MP for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord had a summit meeting with the person who can act directly in this situation, namely the Minister of National Defence. Following this meeting between the MP and the minister, it was agreed that a decision would be announced as soon as possible. But it's already been three weeks. We are following the matter very closely, to ensure that it is followed up and, above all, that the problem is resolved. That's why the Conservative MP for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord has referred the matter to the person who makes the decisions, namely the Minister of National Defence.
You'll recall that two days ago, we tabled a motion to debate the problem of waste water discharge into the St. Lawrence River in Montreal, among other places. We started the debate, but unfortunately our other colleagues decided to put an end to it. But just because they decided not to talk about it doesn't mean we won't. It's a very worrying subject. It's a very worrying subject, especially as this problem is increasing quite significantly in Quebec.
In Quebec, there were over 36,000 spills by municipalities in 2021 and over 57,000 last year. If, unfortunately, the trend continues, this bad habit of ours will continue.
On this subject, there was a spill in Quebec City. We know full well that this is the responsibility of the province, which has an agreement with the municipalities, and we respect that, but the reality is this. In a Radio-Canada report, an expert in environmental biotechnology and decontamination at Toronto's York University said: “There will be adverse effects on the river in the years to come.”
My question is for Mr. Carreau, from the Department of Health.
Do you agree with the York University expert that waste water dumping will have long-term effects?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Mr. Longfield seems to have his hand up. Is that a point of order?
Mr. Longfield, your hand is up.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I didn't hear you call my name. Sometimes it takes a moment for the microphone to kick in.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Yes.
The debate that we had on this in our last meeting was adjourned. I'm hoping that the answers received by the committee then could be used in the study we're currently doing.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I stopped your time, Mr. Deltell.
Basically, if I understand it, Mr. Longfield is asking for the consent of the committee to use the evidence from our discussion on the issue in the last meeting and of course in this meeting, in response to Mr. Deltell's motion, as input for the study report. I can't imagine there would be any objection to that, and not from Mr. Deltell, I'm sure.
There seems to be consensus. Thank you, Mr. Longfield.
We'll resume Mr. Deltell's line of questioning.
Director General, Safe Environments Directorate, Department of Health
Thank you very much for the question.
As it relates to the discharge of waste-water effluents, that would be under the purview of Environment and Climate Change Canada, and we would defer to officials from that department to respond to that question.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
I understand, Mr. Carreau, but you're from the Department of Health. You have overall responsibility for the health of Canadians. Now, an expert from York University says that waste water discharges, particularly into the St. Lawrence River, can have harmful effects.
Is the health of Canadians well and truly protected, while the government continues this practice?
Director General, Safe Environments Directorate, Department of Health
Thank you very much for that question.
As I've mentioned previously, the responsibility for providing clean, safe and reliable drinking water to the public generally rests with the provinces and territories, and municipalities generally oversee the day-to-day operations of the treatment facilities.
Through the application of treatment facilities, municipalities, in close collaboration with provinces, territories and the federal government, do provide mechanisms to reduce pollutants that may be introduced into drinking water supplies, including those that may be introduced through waste-water effluent discharges.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
We also want to recognize that, unfortunately, the government continues to have this practice. We are not on that side.
The article mentions that waste water contains contaminants—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Forgive me for interrupting, Mr. Deltell, but I see Mr. Longfield still has his hand raised.
Mr. Longfield, is this from earlier?
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
No, I put my hand up since we're debating this motion again that Mr. Deltell has put on the table. When it's my turn to speak, I'd like to have the floor.
Liberal
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
I misunderstood. I'm sorry. I thought he was reintroducing his motion.
Very good. Thank you. I'll put my hand down.