Evidence of meeting #82 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carl Yates  Interim Chief Executive Officer, Atlantic First Nations Water Authority Inc.
Laura Tanguay  Water Policy Coordinator, Canadian Environmental Law Association
George Peslari  Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157
Theresa McClenaghan  Executive Director, Canadian Environmental Law Association
Benoit Barbeau  Full Professor, Polytechnique Montréal, As an Individual
Robert Haller  Executive Director, Canadian Water and Wastewater Association
Michelle Woodhouse  Program Manager, Freshwater and Great Lakes Protections, Environmental Defence Canada
Mark Ryckman  Manager of Policy, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to the 82th meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development.

I wish to inform the committee that all online witnesses have been tested for the sound and the interpretation, and have passed the test.

I'd like to point out that Ms. Idlout is with us today, replacing Mr. Bachrach, who in turn was replacing Ms. Collins.I'd also like to welcome Mr. Kelloway, who is attending the meeting on behalf of Ms. Taylor Roy.

We have two groups of witnesses with us today, for approximately an hour each.

In our first group, we have Mr. Carl Yates, Interim Chief Executive Officer, Atlantic First Nations Water Authority Inc.; Ms. Theresa McClenaghan, Executive Director, and Ms. Laura Tanguay, Water Policy Coordinator, Canadian Environmental Law Association; and Mr. George Peslari, Reeve of Rural Municipality Number 157 of South Qu'Appelle.

Each witness will have five minutes for their opening statement.

Mr. Yates, we'll begin with you. Welcome to the committee. You have the floor for five minutes.

11:05 a.m.

Carl Yates Interim Chief Executive Officer, Atlantic First Nations Water Authority Inc.

Good morning, Chair Scarpaleggia and members of the standing committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you.

My name is Carl Yates and I bring greetings from the Wabanaki territory, where we do our utmost to live out the treaties of peace and friendship for all our relations. I am appearing on behalf of the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority, where I recently completed my tenure as chief executive officer.

We have prepared a brief for the standing committee's benefit. My understanding is that it's in for translation. My opening remarks today will be excerpts from that statement.

We are pleased the federal government is reviewing its role in the protection and management of freshwater resources in Canada. It is a particularly good opportunity for the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority to express its views on the stewardship of water resources now that it is fully operational and providing water and waste-water services to first nations communities in Atlantic Canada.

AFNWA is the first of its kind in Canada, a full-service water and waste-water utility owned and operated by first nations. Many of the topics to be studied by the standing committee are central to the sustainability of AFNWA. These themes are also embedded in the 10-year business plan developed and approved by AFNWA in 2022 with the vison of strengthening programs and the approach to service delivery, all in the spirit of self-determination and reconciliation. It is in this context that we provide recommendations to the standing committee for consideration.

I always want to start with governance, because many good things stem from good governance. You all know that. I don't have to tell you that.

The foundation of AFNWA's success to date has been connected to governance. AFNWA is a not-for-profit organization, led by first nations with a board composed primarily of first nations representatives who have carefully developed incorporation documents, a governance manual and bylaws to guide their decision-making. The AFNWA board of directors is also supported by an elders advisory lodge and three standing committees. The delegative policy, decision-making and monitoring roles are clearly described in the terms of reference for the lodge and each standing committee. Much of this governance work was carried out with the support of the Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat, with funding from the federal government.

We encourage the federal government to build on the relationships established between first nations and Indigenous Services Canada in their collective vision to have first nations exert more direct control of freshwater resources for the betterment of the communities they serve, all in accordance, of course, with paragraph 7(b) of the Department of Indigenous Services Act.

Speaking of acts, as the standing committee is aware, legislation is proposed to be introduced this fall to strengthen first nations access to sustainable water and waste-water services. Of course, what we see before us is a proposal for an act respecting drinking water, waste-water and related infrastructure on first nations lands. AFNWA has provided comments directly on the legislation to ISC Minister Hajdu, but it bears reinforcement through the standing committee. AFNWA is encouraged to see that the guidelines for Canadian drinking water quality have been identified as the minimum standards for drinking water. We're also encouraged to note that these standards will apply to both private and public water and waste-water systems.

To improve the legislation, AFNWA proposes that future regulations concerning waste water include effluent discharge objectives related to environmental risk assessments rather than national performance standards required by the waste-water systems effluent regulations. The requirement to conduct an ERA is consistent with the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment's municipal waste-water effluent strategy, which was adopted in 2009 and offers increased environmental protection for receiving water bodies. Often, this is necessary to protect sensitive receiving waters by ensuring proper waste-water treatment, or to create efficiencies to reduce the environmental footprint and help protect public health.

It is also the view of AFNWA that future regulations must be met with adequate funding for implementation. With the standards identified within the legislation, it will be necessary for Indigenous Services Canada to develop, in partnership with first nations, a funding framework within the first year of the act receiving royal assent. This framework must address the years of chronic underfunding and help facilitate community growth and economic development.

The AFNWA looks forward to further engagement with the Government of Canada when the legislation is introduced to the House of Commons.

On the topic of private wells and septic systems, many first nations communities are serviced by individual wells and septic systems. Current ISC policy does not fund their installation, repair and upgrade. In our view, underfunded individual wells and septic systems have the potential to be a significant public health and environmental concern.

The AFNWA is currently conducting a survey to catalogue all individual wells and septic systems in its member communities. Once identified, the AFNWA will seek funding to conduct a condition assessment to understand the resources required to manage an ongoing program to ensure these systems are in a state of good repair. We request your support to fund these studies and subsequent programs to remediate deficiencies.

I'd like to speak to climate change, which I know is also an important topic to this committee. Similar to colonial municipalities across Canada, much of the water and waste water infrastructure within first nations communities is being impacted by climate change. AFNWA is pursuing technologies and best practices to both mitigate and adapt to climate change. AFNWA encourages the standing committee to recognize these needs when developing programs and allocating funding to first nations.

Last, but not least, I have a comment on research needs. Like any progressive utility, AFNWA is pursuing research partnerships to advance its understanding of the water cycle from source to tap and back to the source again. We encourage the federal government to support programs that promote two-eyed seeing with dedicated funding for indigenous communities.

AFNWA embraces two-eyed seeing, which is a process that recognizes traditional indigenous knowledge and western science as complementary to service delivery. In that regard, the standing committee should recognize the importance of partnering with leading research institutions to ensure we are on the cutting edge of technology and best practices to deliver more energy efficient, environmentally friendly and cost-effective water and waste-water services.

On behalf of the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority, we thank you for the opportunity to appear before the standing committee and we look forward to a clarification of roles and responsibilities through your continued studies.

Respectfully submitted for all our relations, nujo’tme’k samqwan.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Thank you very much, Mr. Yates.

I allowed a little more time because we only have three witnesses on this panel, and I thought the content was valuable. I'll give seven minutes to the other two who will be delivering opening statements.

We'll go now to Ms. Laura Tanguay, water policy coordinator with the Canadian Environmental Law Association, who is online, I believe.

Ms. Tanguay.

11:10 a.m.

Laura Tanguay Water Policy Coordinator, Canadian Environmental Law Association

Hello, and thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for inviting us to speak here today.

With me is CELA’s executive director and counsel, Theresa McClenaghan, who will join me for the Q and A period.

CELA has made written submissions to this committee regarding the freshwater study as well as a supplementary brief that will be provided later today.

Today I will be bringing three issues to your attention for your consideration. One is the inequity surrounding who has access to consistent, safe drinking water. Two is the state of contaminants of concern in Canada, including PFAS and radionuclides. Three is the processes for determining the role of the Canada water agency.

First, all of us deserve access to clean, reliable drinking water, but in Canada that's not the case. Particularly vulnerable are first nations reserves. Bill C-226 and the Safe Drinking Water for First Nations Act, of which we await an update, are steps toward Canada's righting this wrong.

CELA recommends that Canada co-develop appropriate reforms with indigenous communities to better accommodate, integrate and assist source protection planning for drinking water systems that serve their communities and also to follow the Green Budget Coalition's 2024 preliminary budget recommendations, and specifically, the provisions for investment and long-term funding for an office of environmental justice for the development of a tracking and mapping program similar to the United States' EJScreen, which identifies and monitors areas of environmental injustice concerns, and also to strengthen environmental enforcement and compliance through ECCC's branch designated to do so for areas of environmental injustice.

On contaminants of concern, PFAS are a class of human-made chemicals with approximately 12,000 substances in the class. They're used extensively worldwide in various industries for their properties to repel water, oil and grease. They're persistent and very mobile in the environment, and they have been detected extensively in the water, including in the Great Lakes basin. Evidence shows that they have impacts on human health and disproportionately affect women and other vulnerable groups, including children.

CELA recommends that Canada list PFAS as a class of toxic chemicals under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act; that the federal government develop a strategy to eliminate the class and address the full life cycle of PFAS; that PFAS' releases and contamination be tracked and reported through the national pollutant release inventory; and that the data be made public.

On radionuclides, CELA and colleagues drafted an alternative policy for Canada on radioactive waste management and decommissioning in March 2022. It's linked in our supplemental brief. It advocates for a framework that makes the nuclear industry more accountable to protect human and environmental health.

In May 2023, Canada released its long-overdue policy, which we found deeply disappointing. CELA strongly recommends, particularly given the large increase of federal funding toward new nuclear projects, that Canada revisit the national radioactive waste policy and integrate CELA's recommendations to protect freshwater sources for all from tritium and other harmful radionuclides.

Last, CELA is supportive of the creation of the Canada water agency to streamline water governance across the country. As the office is now established, CELA recommends that Canada, per the Assembly of First Nations' July 2023 resolution, centre indigenous water stewards, guardians and decision-makers in Canada water agency's decisions, advance reconciliation and apply the UNDRIP Act to Canadian water policies.

We also recommend that Canada clarify what the role of the Canada water agency will be and develop a process of how to determine that role. We advocate for a centralized data system for water governance to reduce duplication, promote knowledge sharing and improve baseline datasets and ecological and climatic predictions.

We encourage watershed collaborations at a national scale with a focus on freshwater ecosystem restoration and opportunities for indigenous conservation areas, and we recommend that the Canada water agency's mandate include language on Great Lakes and vulnerable communities.

To reiterate, the three priorities we are bringing to your attention today are the inequities surrounding who has access to consistent, safe drinking water, the state of contaminants of concern in Canada, including PFAS and and radionuclides, and, last, the processes for determining the role of the Canada water agency.

Thank you so much for your time today.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Thank you, Ms. Tanguay.

Mr. Peslari, Reeve of Rural Municipality Number 157 of South Qu'Appelle, you now have the floor.

11:15 a.m.

George Peslari Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development for the invitation. I am George Peslari, reeve of the Rural Municipality of South Qu’Appelle No. 157, Saskatchewan.

Before we begin, I would like to comment briefly on the importance of rural municipalities and the positions of reeve and council members and their contributions to each of their respective communities.

This level of government has the most personal interaction with the voting public. I personally talk to constituents daily. Investments in municipalities affect people on a personal level. They impact their lives closer to home. As groups, we need to work more interdependently toward fresh water sustainability and get things done by influencing and coordinating with others.

To get to my point today, and the reason I am addressing this committee, I need to voice the fact that a sustainable community does not dump waste water into nearby waterways like creeks and coulees, which ends up in our lakes and rivers. The treated water released from a nearby town flows through a coulee onto private land and stays in ponds along the route to Echo Lake near Fort Qu’Appelle, Saskatchewan. This lake system is under the care of the federal government; thus, it is the government's responsibility to address concerns.

As of present, there are no set limits for dissolved solids and other contaminants in the water. See the link provided from the Government of Saskatchewan.

One of the published studies by T. Bjornson & Associates Consulting Inc, which has been provided to the committee, mentions:

“The most prevalent water quality challenge globally is eutrophication”. Eutrophication is driven by nutrients being added to freshwater systems which, over time, can lead to changes in the structure and functioning of these systems, and ultimately, biodiversity loss. This process usually takes many thousands of years, but since the 1950’s, this has been accelerated by nutrient pollution resulting from human activity and climate change. The complete deterioration of a lake’s ecological structure resulting in fatal loss of biodiversity and ecosystem function can now occur within a matter of only a few years....

There may also be a need for limits to be set as to how many contaminants can be released into the waterways, hopefully none.

As I make this statement about a town near me, it is not the only town that does this. Even the City of Regina drains its treated water into this lake system. During flood events, the City of Regina has come under scrutiny for being allowed, on an emergency basis, to release untreated water. We all know this is happening all over Canada.

As the reeve of a rural municipality, I know the tax base cannot support a solution for this problem. Talking to people in my community, there have been offers to accept this water for irrigation of hay land, thus leaving capacity in lagoons for rain events and normal operations, but the funding to complete these projects is not available. My hopes are that the federal government may see this as a viable part of the solution and look into funding these projects along with the provinces and local municipalities. I have concerns, though, from past experience that the federal government may not be too interested in these smaller projects in our communities.

While making an application to fund a potable water system, the McLean, Qu'Appelle, Edgeley regional potable water system, through the investing in Canada infrastructure program, we were advised by our engineering company that larger regional water projects are more likely to be approved. MPE advised against each time making its own application. I feel this added to the overall cost of the project, with the addition of approximately 34 kilometres of pipeline to take water from a central location and distribute it to one other town and one hamlet.

In conclusion, I am here to speak to protecting the fresh water in Saskatchewan and in Canada. I hope what I've heard from the public can be taken from here and heard at the federal level.

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Thank you very much, Mr. Peslari, for the very interesting commentary.

That brings us to our first six-minute round. We will be starting today with Mr. Kram.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for joining us today. You will have to excuse me. I have a bit of a scratchy throat today. Hopefully I will be feeling and sounding better in the not-too-distant future.

Mr. Peslari, I would be very interested if you could elaborate on some of the comments you made in your opening statement. You are a reeve of a rural municipality. Is that correct?

11:25 a.m.

Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

George Peslari

That's correct.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

You're an elected politician just like those of us sitting around the table.

Can you tell us what you have done regarding the issue of waste water in your community and maybe some of the challenges that you have encountered in doing so?

11:25 a.m.

Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

George Peslari

I have only been reeve for three years now. I am just focusing on bringing to light what is happening in my community. This is a good place to start, and I will move forward trying to see what we can do to correct it.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

You said that the dumping of waste water has been a problem in your community. When you have talked with other levels of government, how far have you gotten in addressing this issue?

11:25 a.m.

Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

George Peslari

I have been dealing with the EPA of Saskatchewan on this issue and other issues of compost being dumped in the RM as well, and specifically one being pushed into a waterway, with not a lot of success so far.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

What would you like to see from this study in terms of steps that could be taken to correct the problems that you've been dealing with?

11:25 a.m.

Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

George Peslari

I thing if there were guidelines in place there might be some clout for the EPA to do a few things to help mitigate some of these issues.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

In your opening statement you said that there have been offers to accept this water for irrigation of hay land. Can you elaborate on how that would be beneficial?

11:25 a.m.

Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

George Peslari

It would create a better hay crop for the farmers, a more consistent hay crop. There could be two harvests a year, and it would reduce the amount of water, maybe to zero, that needs to be released into the waterway.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

In terms of making this happen from an implementation perspective, how big a project would it take? Would it take a facility to treat the water? How much money would something like that cost?

11:25 a.m.

Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

George Peslari

I don't have that information right now, but I can provide it. There are some fairly small irrigation systems that are pretty cost-effective. I could get you that in writing.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

If you could follow up with a written answer to that question, that would be very helpful.

I would like to circle back to the project you mentioned in your statement that was through the investing in Canada program, and that required an extra 34 kilometres of pipeline. Can you explain how that all came about?

11:25 a.m.

Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

George Peslari

The Town of McLean has water issues. It escapes me right now which contaminants are in the water. They made an application with MPE engineering to rectify the issue. When they were going through the processes, they approached the two other communities that needed some of the work done, one of which was in control of the RM itself, because they were worried that they wouldn't be approved if they weren't there as part of a regional water system and each town instead was there about its own treatment system. The cost of adding piping I don't have with me right now, but it was quite a big part of the project.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Mr. Peslari, I would be curious to know why you wouldn't just go with a smaller project for each town instead of pooling resources and having one big project.

11:25 a.m.

Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

George Peslari

We were told that we would not likely be approved.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

You were told this by whom?

11:25 a.m.

Reeve, Rural Municipality of South Qu'Appelle No. 157

George Peslari

It was MPE engineering.