Environment Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2023

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

It was the engineering firm that was going to do the project.

[George Peslari]

Yes. With their past experience they have learned that if it was not a large project, it would not likely be approved.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

You mentioned that this was through the investing in Canada program and there seemed to be some thresholds that would make small projects not qualify for the program.

Is that a pretty accurate summary of the issue with the engineering firm?

[George Peslari]

I think so, yes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Chair, how am I doing for time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You're pretty much out of time.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Okay. I'll leave it there then.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses who have joined us, both virtually and in person. It's a real privilege to hear from you and to hear about all of the great work that you're doing in your communities and across our country.

Today, I'm going to use my time to highlight a program that I've been familiar with for a couple of years that works with indigenous communities. I've also had the opportunity to meet with some of the leadership on Parliament Hill on the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe. It's called the Indigenous Leadership Initiative. They run a program called Land Needs Guardians.

If anybody who is watching or listening would like more information, I would encourage them to go to landneedsguardians.ca. That's the website that I'm on.

I was really struck by the engagement and efficacy of the Land Needs Guardians program, which I heard quite a lot about yesterday. Its raison d'être states:

We are the “moccasins and mukluks” on the ground for our communities. We manage protected areas, restore animals and plants, test water quality, and monitor development projects...we welcome visitors to traditional territories and maintain cultural sites.

Guardians’ work is guided by science—both Indigenous and western. We are trained in data collection and water quality analysis, and we learn from our Elders about relationships with animals and changes on the land.

Yesterday, we heard from two such guardians who work in ecological restoration and environmental stewardship in their communities. I was thrilled to see that the Eskasoni Fish and Wildlife Commission has hired its first intern this past summer to put some indigenous and ecological knowledge to work in nature conservation in Nova Scotia.

Mr. Yates, I'm curious to know if you've become familiar with the Land Needs Guardians program or if you've worked with the Indigenous Leadership Initiative.

My friend Valérie Courtois is one of the leaders in that group. Yesterday, I committed to her that I would be a more vocal spokesperson for their extraordinary work. I thought today's meeting was a great opportunity for that.

Given that the Land Needs Guardians program is active in Nova Scotia now with the Eskasoni First Nation of the Mi'kmaq nation, do you have any familiarity with the organization?

Could you speak a bit about your experience and about how the over 1,000 indigenous guardians across the country are contributing to ecological restoration and environmental stewardship, particularly on the topic of today's meeting with respect to water quality?

[Carl Yates]

I'm pleased to say that I have some familiarity with the organization. I expect that we'll interface with them in the future.

I'm also pleased to know that the Eskasoni have a person on the ground. I can confirm that Eskasoni actually is one of our member communities of the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority and very central, of course, to Unama'ki.

We will continue to interface with the organization and the stewardship of Eskasoni's leadership because they actually have formed a watershed committee, which we are part of. One of the residents of Eskasoni is actually part of our team as well. She will continue to be part of that watershed committee.

We are very connected to Eskasoni and expect that we will interface nicely together because we have the same values and we're looking for the same outcomes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Yates.

I note here from the article that Ellen Dennis is a member of the Eskasoni First Nation and the intern that the Eskasoni Fish and Wildlife Commission was able to hire this past year. They got funding through the Nova Scotia-based Clean Foundation. The Land Needs Guardians program continues to be supported by our government.

Is there anybody else who is on virtually who would like to comment on the Land Needs Guardians program or the importance of indigenous leadership in ecological restoration and environmental stewardship?

Ms. McClenaghan.

[Theresa McClenaghan, Executive Director, Canadian Environmental Law Association]

In terms of indigenous leadership and fresh water, as you heard from Ms. Tanguay earlier, that is a very strong submission by CELA in our work on fresh water not just with the hope for the Safe Drinking Water for First Nations Act, but also in source water management across the country. We definitely advocated for strong inclusion of first nations in Ontario, for example, within the provincial Clean Water Act, which deals with protecting sources of drinking water, and we're hoping for a very strong source water focus as part of future first nation federal legislation as well.

This does have to happen on a watershed basis. We know from experience this needs the inclusion of a great many sectors, and indigenous leadership is absolutely key. We also did a tool kit with one of our lawyers a few years ago with extensive involvement with some Ontario first nations on the general concept of stewardship and guardian programs. We have source water tool kits for first nations in particular also available on our website.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thanks very much, Ms. McClenaghan.

Ms. Tanguay, do you have anything to add, any experience or familiarity with the Land Needs Guardians program?

[Laura Tanguay]

I will second what Ms. McClenaghan has to say about that.

I think it's really important to centre indigenous decision-making with any type of land use proposition, and particularly when it comes to protecting freshwater sources, point source pollution and non-point source pollution as well. I will point to the resources that were already mentioned there by Ms. McClenaghan as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Madam Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you very much for being here, Mr. Yates.

I'd also like to thank the witnesses who are attending the meeting virtually.

Mr. Yates, your organization's website says that it represents a change in a system that has been in place for more than 150 years,and that it reflects the desire of first nations for self-determination and control of a resource that is critical for public health, and protection of the environment.

Are the processes whose goal is the adoption legislative measures on water and access to it by indigenous communities prioritizing your perspective?

[Carl Yates]

Certainly any regulations with regard to drinking water and first nations will be central to the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority's desire to have a sustainable approach. As I mentioned in my remarks and as contained in our brief, we are keen to see both the Canadian drinking water quality guideline standards adopted as the minimum for service to first nations, be that either central systems or individual wells and septic systems.

I also mentioned very clearly that we would like to see waste-water effluent discharge tied very closely to environmental risk assessments to ensure that the receiving waters are well protected. It was interesting enough to hear from our friend from the Rural Municipality of South Qu’Appelle that it appears to be a common theme. What we speak about there, of course, is going beyond the national performance standards, which focus on carbonaceous biological oxygen demand, to total suspended solids and residual chlorine. When you start to look at environmental risk assessments, you take into account in particular nutrient removal, so things like phosphates and nitrates. That is a very important part of what we want to do.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Okay.

We know that the government has to be guided by sustainable development goals. The sixth, in particular, says that the federal government must work together with all stakeholders, including municipalities, to achieve these goals.

I'm returning to some degree to the same question: for water, is the government listening to you enough? I'm asking, because we've conducted other studies in which first nations peoples told us that they had not been consulted enough, or that if they had been consulted, they weren't listened to.

[Carl Yates]

In the case of the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority, I can affirm that the government has been listening and collaborating well. This was a journey that was started quite some time ago. I can even say it started since 2005, but, in particular, it reached momentum in 2020 when we signed the framework agreement with Indigenous Services Canada, which, at the time, was under the auspices of Minister Marc Miller. I can say that the collaboration has continued through Minister Hajdu and the staff of Indigenous Services Canada.

We did, indeed, collaborate quite well based on the framework agreement that we signed in 2020. I actually think the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority is a good model for how the government can continue to collaborate. To use the water term in this regard, I believe, quite frankly, that this model could be a case of rinse and repeat, that we could do this in other areas of Canada, this collaboration approach.

I can say that we've had very good reception certainly with senior staff at Indigenous Services Canada, who continue to work with us, because we are still on a journey. This journey is not finished, and we hope that we will, indeed, be in a better place over time.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

My other question is for the Canadian Environmental Law Association.

Ms. McClenaghan, we know that in 2021, your organization submitted a brief to this committee summarizing your concerns about fresh water, particularly in connection with the legislative framework for this issue. I recall that the priority had to be the introduction of measures that would advance reconciliation with indigenous peoples. But there are many different authorities dealing with fresh water, and it's rather fragmented.

There was an act, but it was abrogated. In your opinion, as lawyers, why instead was the existing legislative framework not kept and amended? Right now, there's a legislative vacuum.

[Theresa McClenaghan]

You're speaking, I presume, about the federal Safe Drinking Water for First Nations Act, which was repealed last year. We did support its repeal. We opposed its adoption in the first place. We felt it was extremely poorly framed. It took governance and leadership away from first nations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

One moment, Ms. McClenaghan.

Ms. Pauzé, are you rising on a point of order?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I lost the interpretation briefly, Mr. Chair, but the sound is back now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

All right.

Please go ahead, Ms. McClenaghan.

[Theresa McClenaghan]

Do you need me to say anything again?