Environment Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

They are not online yet.

There are some online and some not.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I simply want to remind you that you can make big, ambitious announcements, but you still have to have a track record that speaks for itself, which is not the case.

With respect to methane, as I was saying, the provincial and federal governments have given the green light on this. There are still the major emitters, and they have to do their part. That is our wish.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Actually, Mr. Longfield brought up what I wanted to say. Some witnesses are online; others are waiting. We were supposed to welcome them at noon. Can we show them a little respect and not delay their testimony again? Can I request a vote?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're at the end of the speaking list, so we can proceed to a vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're going to take a short break to allow the witnesses who are not already online to join us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We will now resume the meeting.

For your information, the sound quality tests have been carried out successfully.

I would like to begin by thanking the witnesses for making themselves available a second time to enable us to finish the discussions we started last week.

I remind you that Professor Diane Orihel is back with us in person, while we have Professor Beatrix Beisner, Wanda McFadyen and Marc Hudon online.

We'll start with Mr. Kram. I am going to change the speaking times so that we can take advantage of the witnesses' presence. We're going to go to five-minute rounds, which would normally be six minutes. The Bloc Québécois and NDP members will have three minutes instead of two and a half.

I give you the floor, Mr. Kram.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for rejoining us here today.

I would like to begin with Ms. Beisner and Ms. McFadyen.

In the previous meeting, both of you had statements to the effect that watershed boundaries do not necessarily match jurisdictional boundaries. As the Canada water agency is in the process of setting up its head office and its regional offices across the country, would it make more sense for the regional offices to match up with jurisdictional boundaries, or would it make more sense to have them match with watershed boundaries?

[Beatrix Beisner, Professor and Researcher, Université du Québec à Montréal, As an Individual]

Since you said my name first, I'll go first.

I'm not an expert on the political aspects of these things, but my feeling would be that there is some sense in having it correspond somewhat to jurisdictional boundaries, because that's where the money and the decision-making comes from. However, on the other hand, of course, I do think that these units have to work together.

I'm sorry, I was supposed to speak in French, but I completely forgot.

In my opinion, you are right to think that this issue should be addressed from a jurisdictional point of view—that is to say from a political point of view, but we also have to consider natural borders.

That said, I think Ms. McFadyen has more experience in this area than I do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Would you like someone else to answer?

Ms. McFadyen.

[Wanda McFadyen, Executive Director, Assiniboine River Basin Inititative]

Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the committee member for the question.

With regard to office location, you have existing buildings and staff in place, so given our virtual world and our ability, they can work transboundary in the existing watersheds that are there, being cognizant of those particular watersheds. For example, the Winnipeg office is located, of course, in Winnipeg within the Lake Winnipeg basin, which covers a large chunk of Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and northwestern Ontario. I think there should be recognition that they are working within those areas, but whether the agency is developed to work within those larger watersheds like Lake Winnipeg, the Mackenzie, the Nelson, etc., that needs to be looked at.

There also needs to be recognition that some of those water bodies here on the Prairies in the area where I work.... The International Souris River Board and the International Red River Watershed Board exist because those watersheds also extend into the U.S. The International Joint Commission, in place along the Canada-U.S. border, works on those water bodies, such as the Great Lakes or the Souris River. It's important that it also liaise with those organizations.

Be cognizant of watersheds because they all merge together. Lake Winnipeg is comprised of four major watersheds. That is going to be important, moving forward, for a successful agency.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Ms. McFadyen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Hudon has his hand up, if you want.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

If he would like to chime in, then I certainly won't object.

[Marc Hudon, Member, Forum for Leadership on Water]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to make a comment.

I agree with what has been said about watershed management or administrative and political boundaries, if I may put it that way. However, in terms of the social involvement of the communities that live within these watersheds, it is important that the Canadians who will be part of these new geographic boundaries feel empowered or that they are directly involved. If administrative boundaries are too broad or too large, Canadians may lose interest over the years and no longer want to be as directly and consistently involved in the implementation of this new operation.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Maybe I will follow up with Mr. Hudon on that one.

At an earlier meeting, we heard from Daniel Wolfish of the Canada water agency, and he explained that, in addition to the head office in Winnipeg, there would be regional offices in Vancouver, B.C.; Burlington, Ontario; Toronto, Ontario; Gatineau, Quebec; Quebec City; and Dartmouth, Nova Scotia.

Mr. Hudon, do you see any watersheds in the country that are not represented in the list of regional offices that I just mentioned?

That is for the other witnesses too.

[Marc Hudon]

Just quickly, does it cover the Arctic region?

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

No, it doesn't look like there are any in the Arctic region.

[Marc Hudon]

Other than that, that's the only one that comes to mind quickly.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I'll go quickly to the other two witnesses.

[Beatrix Beisner]

Can you just repeat the list again?

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Yes. It was the head office in Winnipeg. Then we had regional offices in Vancouver, B.C.; Burlington, Ontario; Toronto, Ontario; Gatineau, Quebec; Quebec City; and Dartmouth, Nova Scotia.

[Wanda McFadyen]

I would concur with Mr. Hudon, that we need to look at the Arctic region and those watersheds in the north. Certainly in Manitoba and Saskatchewan and in those watersheds in Alberta, we rely on those for hydroelectricity, as does northern Quebec and probably northern Ontario. I'm assuming Dartmouth would also look after Labrador and Newfoundland. It's important to recognize those.

Whether they can be worked out of the existing offices...but not to forget them and the communities and citizens who live within those. It's very important that they are engaged.

Thank you.

[Beatrix Beisner]

I agree that we must not forget the far north, especially in the context of climate change. A lot of the water that's already on the territory is frozen. It's going to melt and it's going to create new ecosystems. We have to think from that perspective. The migration of species to the north is also an issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Ali, you have the floor.