Environment Committee on Dec. 12th, 2023

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I don't think it's irrelevant to talk about first nations.

I would like to point out that I am following the recommendations made by Mr. van Koeverden a few days ago here in this committee. He said that it is better to debate and discuss motions during committee business, rather than when there are witnesses.

This is committee business, so this is exactly what we're doing. We had an opportunity to speak about that, and unfortunately, again, for the second time in a row, the Liberals decided to shut down conversation and debate about first nations. That is sad, very sad.

With regard to the motion currently being debated, I would like to remind you that this government has been constantly lecturing everyone on climate change for the past eight years. It keeps wanting to tax people. It keeps talking about ambitious targets, but the results are not there.

Earlier, Mr. Longfield referred to the statement made by the Minister of Environment and Climate Change in Dubai at COP28, saying that Canada was the first country to now have a highly directive approach concerning methane. Once again, the government is very proud to say that it has ambitious targets and that Canada is the first country to do that. Canada is indeed first when it comes to speaking, but last when it comes to keeping its promises. That's the reality of the situation.

Yesterday, in the House of Commons, during question period, I asked for the consent of the House to table the 2024 report of the Climate Change Performance Index, which was presented and debated at COP28. I'm very proud to say that I was a virtual participant in that conference, with zero bills and zero greenhouse gas emissions. When I wanted to table this report in the House, the Liberals refused. Worse yet, during question period, when I asked if anyone knew where Canada stood in that ranking, never—

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I have a point of order again, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Ms. Taylor Roy.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I don't see it coming to the relevance of this motion—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I think Mr. van Koeverden also—

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

We're not talking about the price on pollution in this motion at all.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

No, I am right on target.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No, we're talking about—

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

No, this motion here does not talk about the price on pollution, and we're debating this motion.

The motion that's on the table is what we're debating, and the motion does not refer to the price on pollution. You can read it; it's in front of you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It's just that Mr. van Koeverden took some liberties to make some political points, so that's fine.

Mr. Deltell, go ahead.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I think we are talking about “amend the Federal Methane Regulations”. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Mr. Longfield talked about the announcement made by the minister a few days ago at COP28 about the new regulations and the ambitious program that this government has about methane. This is exactly what we're talking about here, so this is why I raised the point.

Why am I bringing this up, Mr. Chair? Yesterday, I asked the House of Commons for permission to table this climate change performance index 2024 report, and my request was denied. I asked the House whether anyone in the government knew where Canada stood in the 2024 rankings. We know that Canada ranked 58th last year. This year, does anyone in the government know? The one person who stood up claimed not to know. How can this government, which is proud to say that it has a delegation of 700 people in Dubai, not know about a document that I managed to find online with our team? Incidentally, we took part in the conference online, and generated zero emissions and zero bills for taxpayers.

We couldn't table this report in the House yesterday. As a result, I want to remind you once again that the Prime Minister's highly ambitious Canada, which always makes big announcements, has now fallen from 58th place last year to 62nd place this year. Once again, this government is constantly making big announcements and lecturing everyone, ready to tax people to fight pollution. However, it's a different story when the time comes to analyze performance.

On the climate change performance index 2024 rating table, after eight years of this Liberal government, Canada is number 62. It's all rhetoric, all dogmatic and nothing very pragmatic. This is what we are looking at right now.

Mr. Chair, while the Liberals boast and crow about lofty principles, strong announcements and ambitious targets, the outcome is that Canada ranks 62nd, according to this report tabled at COP28. We aren't the ones saying this. The global experts, the people who prepared this UN document for COP28, reached this conclusion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. Deltell.

I want to point out that we have witnesses here with us. We still have a good ten minutes left. Actually, no, we have about seven minutes left. When those seven minutes are up, I hope that we can change course and give the floor to the witnesses.

Mr. Leslie, the floor is yours.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will endeavour to keep it under six minutes. I hope, given the precedence you've highlighted with the range of topics as it relates to the specific motion, you will give me much latitude before the onslaught of points of order from my colleagues across the way.

In addition, we seem to debate for a lengthy period of time a study that isn't in this motion. This motion itself is the government trying to pat itself on the back for a policy that gives it a chance to wax poetic about how it wants to change our country and our economy to some sort of, essentially, planned economy. It's going to make all these investments and it's going to choose winners and losers and sectors that it thinks are more appropriate than the jobs that support the communities I represent and the communities that are supported across this country by our natural resource sector.

Now we get the chance to highlight that the first nations across Ontario are bringing forward a lawsuit against the federal government. I will quote from an article, where Grand Chief Abram Benedict said, “The government has boasted that Canadians will pay a carbon tax, but through the rebates, through the subsidies they will actually receive more than what they have paid. That doesn't ring true in First Nations communities”. It doesn't ring true in the Northwest Territories, where their premier has just said that this is too costly for northerners. It doesn't ring true in any communities that I represent.

My colleagues across the way may choose to tell people “this is helping you” and “please believe us” and that this must be true, but they don't. If you feel differently, I think we should bring the grand chief here. You should tell him that you think he is being misleading in his lawsuit, as well as the Northwest Territories premier, in saying on behalf of their constituents that the carbon tax is indeed making life simply unaffordable for them.

It's part of a long attack on our natural resource sector with Bill C-50, the so-called “just transition”, where we're just going to move jobs around the economy as we see fit because Ottawa must know best. That's not a just transition, but a part of a lengthy approach from this government to try to kill our natural resource sector, and it is unacceptable.

My colleague across the way said we need to debate making changes to our economy and to our society. I look forward to that opportunity, and it will happen in the carbon tax election, where I know Canadians are going to choose to axe the carbon tax instead of quadrupling the carbon tax.

I will say one last thing, because my colleague across the way brought up that I'm expecting a child soon, which is extremely exciting for me, of course. I think we're going to take a somewhat different vision. After that carbon tax election, I'm going to be able to look proudly at my children and grandchildren and say that our future Conservative majority government created prosperity for this country and did our part to solve environmental challenges here and around the world, and I'll be darn proud of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm asking the committee if we could move on to the next order of business. If there's no UC.... Could somebody propose a motion that we adjourn debate?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Mr. Chair, can I propose that we vote on this motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, but can you propose a motion that we adjourn debate?

I want to know if somebody is going to propose that we adjourn debate and go on to—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

We want to vote, and then it's naturally dissolved.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We can't vote, because we have Mr. Kram, Mr. Mazier and Ms. Taylor Roy, so we can't just vote on this motion.

I'm asking if anyone wants to propose that we adjourn the debate so that we can move on to our witnesses. Can somebody propose a motion to adjourn the debate?

Unless Mr. Kram, Mr. Mazier and Ms. Taylor Roy want to get off the speaking list....

Mr. Kram and Mr. Mazier, do you still want to be on the speaking list? Yes, okay.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I move to adjourn debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're going to vote on adjourning debate.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Chair, he doesn't have the floor.

I'm next on the speakers list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. I have Mr. Kram, Mr. Mazier and Ms. Taylor Roy.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm pleased to have the opportunity to speak on the motion regarding the Liberal government's recently announced emissions cap and methane reduction regulations.

I would like to read a quote regarding these regulations from the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, if I may, which was released on December 7:

Despite the federal government's stated objective that the emission cap should not put a limit on Canadian oil and natural gas production, the unintended consequences of the draft framework announced today of a cap-and-trade system with an interim target of a 35% to 38% emissions reductions below 2019 by 2030 could result in significant curtailments—making this draft framework effectively a cap on production. At a time when the country's citizens are experiencing a substantial affordability crisis, coincident with record budget deficits, the federal government risks curtailing the energy Canadians rely on, along with jobs and government revenues the energy sector contributes to Canada.

That was from the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.

I would also like to read, for the record, what Saskatchewan premier Scott Moe said regarding these announcements. He said:

These new federal policies will have serious economic impacts on Canadians and limit our sustainable Canadian energy products from providing heat and electricity to the world.

He also said:

Saskatchewan remains opposed to the new methane regulations and the oil and gas emissions cap, and we will protect our constitutional right to build our economy in accordance with the priorities of Saskatchewan families and businesses.

I would like to read one more quote, if I may, Mr. Chair:

We've been clear about our concerns about federal intrusion into matters of natural resources.... We've expressed concerns about our ability to meet those targets.

Mr. Chair, that is from Carla Beck, the official opposition leader of the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan. She is the leader of the provincial NDP.

Both parties in Saskatchewan are opposed to these announcements, because this will be detrimental to the livelihoods of people who earn a living in the oil and gas sector. It will be detrimental to first nations communities that rely on the natural resource sector, and it will be detrimental to provincial governments, whose budgets rely on oil and gas royalties.

I oppose these new regulations unequivocally, and so do the people of Saskatchewan.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

I just want to go back to something the NDP was talking about: making this scary and how the Conservatives were carrying on and how we didn't really want...creating a false narrative, I guess.

The whole idea of bringing the first nations chiefs to committee was to listen to them, to actually hear what they had to say, because we've been trying to tell everybody else in Canada, besides the NDP and the Liberals, that the carbon tax is not working.

My colleague, Mr. Deltell, just said, from the report that he read, that actually the carbon tax is going up and the results are going down. You couldn't be much clearer than that. Those are the world's experts telling us that, yet the Liberals and the NDP still believe in this fantasy that this carbon tax is working. I just don't understand that.

They're laughing at me right now.

I think Canadians are so appalled at just how much they're being dismissed by this government. They're not even being heard. You know, you always hear, “Oh, you politicians, you're all the same.” They are really realizing now that this policy is bad for Canada—