Environment Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[Brook Schryer]

Thanks for the question.

In terms of aquatic invasive species, what we've seen historically is that with our colder climate, we've been able to keep various species at bay. Their climactic tolerances haven't been able to withstand our colder temperatures. With climate change, we're seeing species being able to overwinter, which we did not see historically.

We were hoping for a cold winter to potentially eradicate a new species discovered for the first time in North America, in Ontario. It is the marbled crayfish, which is a species first discovered in Germany. It reproduces asexually. They will have a devastating impact on our native crayfish species and fresh fisheries, as well as many other impacts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you. It sounds fascinating, but we'll have to stop there.

We'll go to the second round. To ensure we make good time, I am reducing the questioning by 40%.

Mr. Deltell, you have three minutes in this round.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to your parliament, ladies and gentlemen.

My questions are for Mrs. Pétrin and Ms. Roy‑Grégoire.

It's wonderful to hear what you have to say, and I'm quite pleased with your input. Before I get to my questions, I want to point out something you mentioned, the disastrous situation happening in Kanesatake. It brings to mind the grand chief's appearance before the committee. I want to recognize his dignity and courage in dealing with the situation, which not only is alarming for his community, but also is impacting many people in the area. This isn't an indigenous issue. It's a public health issue. It concerns all of us, so thank you for mentioning it.

In your presentation, you talked about how cities tend to shift responsibility for problems onto the provinces, which shift responsibility onto the federal government, which passes the buck in turn.

Can you give us an example of something that's working? In terms of effective, encroachment-free, relationships between municipalities, provinces and the federal government, is there a model we can look to?

[Rébecca Pétrin]

That's a trick question, Mr. Deltell.

A lot of models are working, particularly those used by municipal and provincial governments, since they work together on a more regular basis. Quebec adopted a drinking water conservation strategy, the Stratégie québécoise d'économie d'eau potable. We do a lot of work under that legislation, in particular. First, municipalities were given the responsibility of implementing the strategy. The province collected the data, which were then shared with all users. From that point on, the water action forum began putting action plans in place.

When a strategy is developed alongside the other levels of government and everyone agrees on the objectives, all the parties work in co-operation and things go smoothly. I should say that, for the past two years, we've been working towards these objectives with the government and municipalities. It has led to green infrastructure projects such as efforts to reduce the amount of water in the sewer system. It has also led to additional investments, so that municipalities could upgrade public infrastructure and reduce water supply losses.

As soon as provinces and municipalities start working towards the same priorities, funding gets allocated and solutions can be implemented.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

You pointed out that it's a local issue, first and foremost. Yes, we agree that there is water everywhere, but the focus has to be on how it's used at the local level.

Politically speaking, municipalities are the first responders. Next, they look to the provinces for a general framework. As you know, Quebec's territory is large, and Canada's, even larger. Geographically, they have different needs.

How could the federal government really play an effective role in addressing the problems that municipalities and provinces run into?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mrs. Pétrin, kindly keep your answer brief.

[Rébecca Pétrin]

It needs to set clear and specific objectives for the entire country. The provinces could then target those objectives. The federal government should also set up a program to monitor progress towards the targets and objectives.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you for being so concise.

Mr. Longfield, you may go ahead. You have three minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

I'm going to direct my questions to Dr. Clark and Dr. Pietroniro.

When we look at the modelling, it's something the Canada water agency, as you mentioned, could be involved with. In Calgary in particular, they are getting water from the Bow River, which is relying on glaciers, and the glaciers are receding. We have droughts in southern Alberta. We have the North Saskatchewan River and the South Saskatchewan River going into Lake Manitoba and Lake Winnipeg, which then have hydroelectric dams, which also need water. We need water on the Prairies for food. We need it for municipalities. We need water for hydroelectricity. All of those are really under threat.

When we look at water itself, we have the surface water, either flowing or standing. We're familiar with lakes and rivers and streams. We also have groundwater below us, which is where Guelph draws its water from, which we don't see. We also have atmospheric water. When you're modelling and looking at the changes in the atmosphere and the clouds and rainfall patterns, you're dealing with a really complicated situation. It's not just rivers and streams.

Could you comment on the complexity and the need for science to be connected on this across Canada as well as internationally?

[Prof. Martyn Clark]

Maybe I can start.

Thank you. That's a very good question.

You're absolutely right that the complexity is enormous. The complexity we have to deal with, especially in a changing climate, makes it really impossible for a single modelling group to make substantial progress on the problem. What we're seeing across Canada is that the only way we can develop the next generation of protection capabilities that are needed is to pull resources, to combine resources and to build our models so that different groups are interoperable with each other so we can really address the challenges at hand. Those include collaboration across the provinces and territories with the federal government, with academia, with the private sector and then also internationally. It's a very big challenge.

I'll let Dr. Pietroniro add to that as well.

[Alain Pietroniro]

Just to be clear, what we're proposing here is really a national framework to bring the academic communities, the provinces, territories and the federal government and even municipalities and the private sector together to develop systems that can be applied for any jurisdiction, so it's really a national approach.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I hope we're also including traditional knowledge from indigenous sources in those discussions.

[Alain Pietroniro]

We are, and in the briefing you'll see that.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you. I wish I had more time, but I don't.

I'll go over to you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, it's pretty much up. I'm sorry.

It is now over to Ms. Pauzé for a minute and a half.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

That's not very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to revisit the Chalk River site, because it really worries me, especially as a Montrealer. I don't want to drink contaminated water. The Liberal government approved the project, despite the objections of the mayors of 40 municipalities in Ontario and Quebec, including Montreal and Gatineau.

How could the government go against the will of the municipalities and indigenous communities by building a nuclear waste dump in Chalk River?

[Rébecca Pétrin]

Quebec's waterways clearly haven't been given sufficient protection rights, so they aren't respected. Exposing a waterway to so much potential pollution violates the principles of prevention and conservation, so I can't understand it, myself.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

It's funny you should bring up the matter of rights. The committee talked about that on Tuesday. One witness said that no matter how many rights are conferred, they aren't respected if obligations and penalties aren't imposed. For instance, international rights are in place to prevent genocide, and you can see what still goes on. I don't think it's about granting more rights.

What else can we do?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Please answer quickly.

[Rébecca Pétrin]

Society should call on the Government of Canada to scrap the project. It's dangerous to the health of Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again to the Rivershed Society, one thing you mentioned in your opening statement was that the funding was disproportionately spent elsewhere, rather than in British Columbia. Given the impacts on watersheds from our changing climate that B.C. has seen, could you talk a little bit about the need for increased funding and the need for B.C. to get its fair share of the funding that is being allocated?

[Justine Nelson]

Yes, absolutely. I think the B.C. salmon restoration and innovation fund is a really good example of that. The recent open application period for a $250-million fund had more than a billion dollars in applications, and of those applications, more than 60% were for restoration projects. I think that clearly demonstrates the need for funding within B.C. for this sort of work.

Thank you.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks so much.

You talked a little bit about the need for collaboration with indigenous communities. Can you speak more to what the federal government could be doing to support organizations like yours to make sure that there is collaboration with indigenous peoples on these issues?

[Justine Nelson]

I think one of the biggest things when there are funding opportunities is providing funding for relationship building in these sorts of situations. Relationship building takes time, and a lot of time. Funding sources do not allow for that sort of deep relationship building to happen, so when we're looking at collaboration, that is desperately needed.