Environment Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[Coree Tull]

I commend this committee for passing that motion.

It's critically important to see the scale of investment that's needed for the disasters and droughts of this past summer. The severity of the crisis we're seeing continues to be demonstrated. With the drought that's continuing right now, we're seeing that the drinking water supplies for first nations and municipalities are dangerously low.

The village of McBride is still in a local state of emergency. Ranchers are running out of hay for cattle, river systems are running low, and hydro power production is experiencing a significant reduction due to those water levels. Investment allows us to get ahead of these crises. It allows us to do the work that advances the potential to get to watershed security.

Some research was done to look at the scale of need. This is on the generous side, but we're looking at $3 billion, which is about $300 million annually, that needs to be invested in our watersheds to get ahead. That goes to rebuilding our natural defences, such as forests, wetlands, and stream banks. These are really the critical first lines of defence against—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry to cut you off, but we only have limited time.

Mr. Leslie, you have three minutes.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start with Ms. Baker.

It seems there is a lot of anti-nuclear sentiment around this table. I think back to our Minister of Environment, Mr. Guilbeault, tweeting—I wasn't sure if it was before or after he was arrested—that it was time to close the Pickering nuclear plant. Thankfully, that has been ignored.

I'm curious as to what your thoughts or advice might be in relation to fresh water and the refurbishment of the Pickering nuclear generating station. Are you aware of the minister's original tweet on that sentiment?

[Jill Baker]

I don't really follow Twitter that much, so I can't comment on the minister's tweet.

Could you repeat the second part of the question?

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

It's just on any advice as it relates to freshwater management regarding the refurbishment of the Pickering nuclear generating station.

[Jill Baker]

I actually don't know anything about how that plant works specifically. I don't think I can answer it.

I can say that any refurbishment or plant that operates in Canada is very closely regulated by the CNSC, and that includes its use of water. It's also monitored closely by Environment and Climate Change Canada with respect to the quality of the water.

I will ask Sorouche if he has anything to add to that.

[Sorouche Mirmiran]

Thank you.

Usually the water intake from a power plant is ejected back into the water, so when it comes to fresh water use, it's one of the most sustainable ways of using fresh water to produce energy.

When it comes to refurbishment, it's an opportunity to use new systems or components to make even better use of water when it comes to waste and so on, or even to cooling. A refurbishment is just a matter of changing the system and components to extend the lifetime of a nuclear power plant. It's an opportunity to improve the environmental footprint and so on.

Thank you.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you.

For an association, it must be rather frustrating to see such an anti-nuclear sentiment from so many of certain members of Parliament. I'm curious as to what sort of outreach you've done to try to educate people.

I know our committee is looking at travelling to see an oil sands facility. I'm curious as to whether you would be willing to have one of your members open their doors so that we could go and see the work that is being undertaken with respect to nuclear waste, as well as the operations that increase the reliable baseload power while helping our environment here in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I assume the answer would be yes.

[Jill Baker]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you. We have to stop there.

We'll go to Mr. Ali for our last questioner.

Before we go to Mr. Ali, I just want to reassure Mr. Deltell that the names that he's asking for have been obtained, and we will be sending around a notice. It has to be translated because it has to be in both official languages. As soon as it's translated, those names will be sent to all members of the committee.

Mr. Ali, go ahead.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Professor Pomeroy, thank you so much for appearing today. You have deep knowledge. I learned so much listening to you.

I know you touched upon certain issues related to fresh water. I just want to go into more details on your views.

Are there major issues related to fresh water in Canada that the federal government is not adequately addressing? If yes, what are they and how can they be better addressed?

[Dr. John Pomeroy]

Thank you for the question.

I believe there are three primary areas that could have a greater federal approach.

One was previously mentioned by experts before this committee. It is improvement in water prediction. The provinces and territories need help. Some big, rich provinces have excellent computer models that do this. The Americans run everything on supercomputers; we don't. Some provinces are using Excel spreadsheets for their flood predictions. We as a country need to do better on that. We'll save ourselves money —20 to one—by doing that.

The second is transboundary waters. We don't handle them very well. We have not had severe transboundary stress in this country. I believe we're headed for it this year, in the west and in the north. We will see further issues with the Americans. Eighty per cent of Canadians live along waters shared with the United States. We have to look after that relationship very carefully, as well as our interprovincial relationships, to make sure we remain a peaceful and friendly federation.

As the final one, last week I spent the morning with the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations in Saskatchewan. They continue to have profound and severe water problems, including with source water protection and water supply, and there are other issues for some communities. They also have a lot of ideas about solutions. I think more engagement with them would benefit everyone and would certainly help them find ways through the current crisis they have.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

As you know, the federal government is currently working to establish an independent Canada water agency with the legislation currently in the House. What do you think that agency's priorities should be as it builds capacity and starts to advance its work?

[Dr. John Pomeroy]

I was very happy to see the Canada water agency advancing. This is a long-held dream for many people who felt more federal leadership would be helpful here.

The first priority is a focus on observations. It should have the active observations of water quantity and quality brought together and dispersed to Canadians in a national way through collaboration.

Second, predictions can be added to those observations. They go together. Again, there's that national help to provinces, municipalities, territories and first nations.

The third is transboundary waters. We need to be looking after the transboundary water relationship.

The fourth is integrated river basin management. We don't do it in Canada and we're going to have to. Europe is doing this now between countries. We can certainly do this between provinces. We will have to in order to adapt to the stresses that climate change puts on our fresh water moving forward.

Thank you.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you so much, Dr. Pomeroy, for being here in person to share your experience, knowledge and insights with us. Your testimony, and the testimony of all the witnesses who have appeared today in both panels, will help our analysts draft what I hope will be a very impactful report.

Thank you to the witnesses.

We look forward to continuing this study and producing a report that reflects your perspectives.

Thanks again.

I thank the members of the committee for being here.

Have a good weekend, everyone.

I look forward to seeing you next week.

The meeting is adjourned.