Evidence of meeting #94 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Professor, Department of Civil Engineering, University of Calgary, As an Individual
I'm sorry, Mr. Ali. Your audio broke up when you were speaking. Could you repeat the question?
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Yes. Can you tell us more about what your academic work on water focuses on?
Professor, Department of Civil Engineering, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Sure. I can start and let Dr. Clark continue.
We focus mostly on environmental prediction systems. A lot of our focus here at the University of Calgary and with our colleagues across Canada is on improving the prediction systems.
I think you're aware that in the provinces and territories and at the federal level, many prediction activities go on. What we try to do is consolidate. You have the mathematical modelling and the approaches that we take and work on with provinces, territories and the federal government to develop and improve the prediction systems, both at the climate scale but also at the forecasting scale, because we have to predict at all kinds of scales in terms of time.
That's what our research focuses on. I'll let Dr. Clark continue that discussion.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
You only have about 15 seconds, Dr. Clark, but you'll be able to address this in answer to questions later on.
Prof. Martyn Clark
Yes, okay. I'll go very quickly.
In addition to what Dr. Pietroniro said, we're doing a lot of work with the United States as part of their Cooperative Institute for Research to Operations in Hydrology. That's a new $360-million co-operative institute to focus on water resources prediction.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
I want to thank the witnesses, especially those who came here. They travelled a long way to see us.
Mrs. Pétrin, we have often met at parties or commemorations with other citizens' rights groups.
In your opening remarks, you talked about the Forum d'action sur l'eau du Québec.
Can you give us a little more detail on that? How does that work?
Chief Executive Officer, Eau Secours
The objective of the Forum d'action sur l'eau, created by the current Quebec government, is to steer work, a bit like what we're doing today.
It includes representatives from various sectors of society. We have a representative for each of the municipal unions. We also have representatives from the departments concerned and professional organizations, including the Union des producteurs agricoles and the chambers of commerce. Forest resource organizations and industries are also represented. We also have four civil society organizations, two of which are for citizens, one for fisheries and one for salmon habitat, more specifically.
The purpose of our meetings, which are held every two months, is to determine how the new blue fund, also created by the Government of Quebec, will be granted and what the next action plan, the Plan Eau, will be. It's a matter of prioritizing the direction on water governance across the province.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
There are indeed many forums in Quebec. We've met with people who came to talk to us about watersheds.
Do you have a relationship with them as well?
Chief Executive Officer, Eau Secours
We have a lot of ties with watershed organizations, which have a concerted mandate to bring together all the stakeholders in the area.
As we know, water is a multisectoral issue. So it's important for everyone to be around a table to discuss the priority directions. That way, we can decide to act together on the same action plan. If everyone works on these directions separately, we won't be able to achieve concrete results.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Earlier you addressed the issue of conflict of use, where water is sometimes an economic resource, sometimes a common heritage.
We know that economic development leads to enormous water pollution. However, the preservation of living environments is often a priority. Water is life.
In that regard, either the legislation is non-existent or it exists, but we dare not enforce it.
What do you think of this conflict?
Chief Executive Officer, Eau Secours
One of the points we've made to the Government of Quebec is the importance of collecting more data on water use in Quebec, as is the case in most countries. The Minister of the Environment would then have the figures needed to determine more easily who he could require to reduce water consumption in the event of a water shortage.
For example, if it could be predicted that some regions of Canada would experience a drought next summer, it could also be predicted that there would be a water shortage. What we don't want is for the cities downstream of the waterways to experience water stress. You have to go all the way up the water basin to determine who are the heavy water users who are able to reduce their water consumption to ensure water supply for the cities downstream and who are suffering the consequences of water contamination and water shortages.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Since you're talking about what happens upstream, I'd like to take this opportunity to mention the Chalk River landfill, which is a sort of open-pit dump. I'm sure you've considered the fact that nuclear waste is buried so close to a waterway, a very important issue for Quebec. It's upstream of the St. Lawrence River and major cities where millions of people go to get their drinking water.
Have you determined the consequences of a spill, of contamination?
We know very well that it will be impossible to warn the public. They will consume the water before they can be warned not to drink it because it's contaminated.
I'm sure you've given that some thought.
Chief Executive Officer, Eau Secours
We've thought about that. In fact, we've been thinking about it for a long time. The Ottawa River, Lac des Deux Montagnes and the St. Lawrence River provide drinking water to more than three million people in Quebec alone. That's not counting the city of Ottawa.
A few years ago, Quebec decided to close the door to hydrocarbons and the pipeline crossing the Ottawa River. Quebec determined that, in the event of a spill and contamination in the Ottawa River, no action plan would be sufficient to address the problems caused by contamination of drinking water in a place with such a large population.
The dump at Chalk River is actually worse. Decontamination is possible in the case of hydrocarbons, but contamination caused by radioactive material is irreversible. It spreads into the biotope. That would really be a disaster. So we're strongly opposed to this project. We believe there should have been a much more serious assessment of alternative scenarios. This is far from the best scenario that could have been designed for Canada.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
In your notes, you also talk about encouraging political representation in public consultations. I'm making a connection here with Chalk River and the fact that elected officials often do not assume their responsibilities. We therefore need advocacy organizations to ensure that we influence decisions.
What do you think?
Chief Executive Officer, Eau Secours
It's very important to mention that, as far as the Government of Canada is concerned, organizations like ours are very involved in the democratic process through the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada. They provide us with funding for each of our participations. When our projects go through Transport Canada or the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, we are not entitled to funding because they are not subject to the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you. That's a good point. What you're talking about here is a significant discrepancy.
Ms. Collins, you have the floor.
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for coming today. We appreciate your testimony.
My first questions are for Ms. Nelson.
I'm a member of Parliament from British Columbia. We have witnessed extreme flooding, droughts, wild fires, atmospheric rivers and heat domes, which have resulted in the tragic loss of hundreds of lives. Right now in B.C., there are areas that have been experiencing multi-year droughts and other areas that have been evacuated for flooding, simultaneously.
Can you tell us more about some of the initiatives you mentioned when it comes to prevention and building resilience?
Executive Director, Rivershed Society of British Columbia
Absolutely. Thank you for the question.
As mentioned, we're engaged with the BC Watershed Security Coalition, which is working to create a sustainable watershed security fund because healthy, resilient watersheds mean more clean drinking water, thriving fish populations and strong local economies. You'll be hearing from the coalition directly in the next hour of the meeting.
Two programs of Rivershed that respond to climate and other impacts on the Fraser are our foodlands program and the watershed CPR dashboard.
Our foodlands program fosters ecosystem health and strengthens climate resilience through collaborative efforts within the Fraser watershed. It brings together first nations communities, agricultural landholders and other stakeholders to create restoric corridors on privately held land throughout the Fraser watershed. This collaborative approach integrates traditional knowledge and language, emphasizing the importance of first nations stewardship and habitat restoration and resilience building.
Our other project, the watershed CPR dashboard, visually represents protection and restoration efforts across the Fraser watershed. It facilitates collaboration among stakeholders, amplifies resilience-building efforts and encourages public support and capital investment for a resilient Fraser watershed.
Both of these programs foster ecosystem health, support stewardship efforts and build community resilience in response to climate change impacts. They are only two programs amongst many that are happening across the watershed and throughout B.C. that are working at preventive measures here.
Thank you.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
We know that watershed governance is municipal, regional, provincial and federal. First nations, Inuit and Métis governance has jurisdiction over water as well.
Can you talk a bit about how the work you do intersects with all of those, and what you see as a path forward to make sure we have coherence in our watershed policies?
Executive Director, Rivershed Society of British Columbia
We work to bring people together. That's what our position as a non-profit is.
Through programs like the foodlands corridor restoration and the watershed CPR dashboard, we're working to bring together the people working on protection and restoration efforts. While we have programs that are directly implementing restoration, most of the actual on-the-ground work is happening through other collaborators. That's what we say our role is: We're the people who connect everyone to work towards these efforts.
I think that's very important when you're working towards something of such a large scale and with so many diverse actors, as you mentioned.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thanks so much.
I'm curious and would love to hear from both of you from the Rivershed Society of B.C.
What are some essential components you want to see to make the Canada water agency successful and the Canada Water Act more effective at protecting our watersheds?
Executive Director, Rivershed Society of British Columbia
As a non-profit working throughout such a large watershed, as you mentioned, we know that responsibility for fresh water is shared among many levels of government. I know there are more than 20 federal departments and agencies with responsibility for fresh water, which makes it very difficult to get to the bottom of an issue, especially for a small non-profit.
We support the idea of effective coordination through an agency like the Canada water agency. However, we believe it must be done in collaboration with first nations.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thanks so much.
I'll ask Mr. Weir and Mr. Schryer my last question of this round.
In terms of the impacts of the climate crisis on anglers, fish stocks and invasive species, what have you been seeing?
Fisheries Biologist, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters
It's a good question and a difficult one to answer. There are a lot of uncertainties and unknowns with respect to climate change.
However, for the most part, on a personal and professional level, I don't see a lot of good things happening, especially for the cold-water, sensitive and more vulnerable fish species that come to mind. We're seeing it now.
There are a lot of good studies out there, particularly in Ontario in Algonquin Provincial Park. The climate change trends internationally and on a smaller scale are the same as those we see in Algonquin Provincial Park. When you look at brook trout and lake trout populations at risk there, you see a major threat.
In terms of aquatic invasive species, there are obviously some concerns there too.