Environment Committee on Nov. 6th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Mr. Fortier, thank you. Time is up.

Mrs. Miedema, you have five minutes, please.

[Shannon Miedema, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to all of the witnesses today.

I want to pick up on something Mr. Penner said around equity. Equity in the clean transition is something I've been focused on in my career.

Maybe this question is for Ms. Smith.

In your role with New Economy Canada, do you think about our low-income and most vulnerable populations? We know the impacts of climate change impact vulnerable populations first and worst, so we absolutely have to address and drive our emissions down. The transport sector is a huge part of that. Do you have any thinking or commentary that you'd like to share on that?

[Merran Smith]

On the impacts of climate change, yes, we're living them and we're breathing them, and they're affecting communities across the country today. That's only going to get worse.

Transportation has roughly 25% of our emissions here in Canada, and electric vehicle technology is ready. It's here and ready for prime time. It's one of the easier things we can do to reduce our emissions to abate and reduce the impacts of climate change.

When it comes to low-income families, what we've done in British Columbia is that we've had those rebates targeted solely at low-income and middle-income families. There's a means testing that is done. I fully support that. I also support the rebates going to second-hand vehicles or a tax exemption for second-hand vehicles. Many Canadians don't buy vehicles new, and that's going to support them.

Ultimately, getting lower-income families into electric vehicles means that we're going to start their fuel and maintenance savings. They'll be saving money, but it's about helping families get over that hurdle of buying this new technology.

[Shannon Miedema, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Fortier, as we've heard, there's a lot of misinformation about zero-emissions vehicles. One key topic that comes up is how the availability standard supposedly distorts the free market. Can you explain how the standard actually levels the playing field for EV makers to be competitive with combustion vehicle producers?

[Matthew Fortier]

Well, the reality is that combustion engine vehicle producers also make EVs. They stand to gain as they bring more of their product into the market here in Canada.

The reality is that we want Canadians to have more choice in the vehicles that they can buy and lease. That's really what this is about. Merran said this earlier too. Once you drive an EV, you're not going to go back. They're better technologies. That's not a slight on gas-powered vehicles. It's just true. They're more efficient. They go really far. They're fun to drive. Once you realize that you can operate it for much less than you would operate your other vehicle, you're going to stick with it.

We're talking about a fairly short period of four, five or six years, and then we have eons to live. We're going to be into a world where the internal combustion engine is just not going to exist anymore, because it's not efficient. Better technologies win out over time.

The challenge for Canada is, how are we going to monetize that? How are we going to be part of this? If we don't act now, as I said in my remarks, we will lose out. We won't have an auto sector to defend. We won't be worried about tariffs and who's president of the U.S., because we'll have nothing to defend. We have to build the supply chain now. It's just the market speaking: 50% of vehicle sales in 10 years are going to be electric globally.

Canada and North America are not going to be immune from that shift, so what are we going to do now to prepare ourselves to make the things that the world is going to want?

[Shannon Miedema, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Fortier, in your role with Accelerate, do you spend time thinking about the barrier of charging infrastructure, about the cost and how to make a solid business case to have a really connected network so that it becomes less of a barrier for folks in adoption?

[Matthew Fortier]

Yes, absolutely. There are people who do a lot of work on this who are not part of our organization, but we collaborate with them. There are people who can speak more intelligently than I on grid integration, etc., but there are business cases for charging suppliers already. People are making money at this.

In the issue that we're talking about right now—the EVAS and the future of the policy—I think one of the challenges this presents to those businesses is predictability. If you take away a policy around which many private sector companies—some of which also operate gas stations, by the way—have set their business models.... They've attracted investment, etc.

My time is up, but you want to provide predictability.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bonin, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Smith, we had a witness before you who talked to us about disinformation, myths and lies. Do you share the same view that there are so many lies and myths circulating about electric vehicles? I feel like there are a lot of them. Is that your impression too?

[Merran Smith]

Yes, it is very much. I'd love to take the opportunity to speak to the electricity situation.

I have been on the board of BC Hydro, the utility in British Columbia, and we heard from Mr. Penner about importing and exporting electricity. I would just say that BC Hydro and, I believe, Hydro-Québec and Manitoba Hydro, buy electricity—solar and wind—when the wind is blowing and when the sun is shining. They buy it when there is an excess down there, and then they sell electricity back to the U.S. when it's more needed and more expensive. BC Hydro made $568 million over the last two years. Yes, we import electricity. We buy low. We sell high. It's a good business, and it's using those hydroelectric dams.

That's an example of some misinformation or disinformation, and yes, there are other myths that are perpetuated about Canada being too cold and about the rural distances. Really, with electric vehicles nowadays, they have 350-kilometre or 400-kilometre ranges, and some are even higher now. That is just not an issue. When it's cold, for sure, the battery does not have as much range. However, most people aren't driving those huge ranges.

I think it's a good line of questioning to pursue, and just really get the facts out there about electric vehicles. They wouldn't be taking off around the world if they were inadequate. They're taking off in Europe. They're taking off in many countries in Asia. That's because they're better technology. It's just like when we all bought into cellphones. We didn't stick to the land line because it's what we knew. We moved on to digital technology, and that's what electric vehicles are like.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

You say that sales are up around the world, or pretty much.

Ms. Smith or Mr. Fortier, could you provide us with information on comparisons with other countries?

[Matthew Fortier]

Yes, absolutely.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Thank you, Mr. Bonin.

Mr. Bexte, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I appreciate the witnesses being in attendance today. It's been a very interesting discussion.

Mr. Penner, you were speaking about grid and generation, specifically in the B.C. context.

Importing isn't a bottomless cup, and if new generation and transmission aren't built, what's going to happen? This is really an open question right now. We'll see where it goes.

[Barry Penner]

In British Columbia, we are working on trying to build more. We're behind the eight ball.

I heard Madam Smith's comments about importing electricity in the afternoon when it's sunny, in California I guess. This morning, though, we were importing at 1 a.m. There were 1,900 megawatts from the United States. That's not solar power at 1 a.m., not even in California. It's not very sunny.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Often, it's not wind at night, either.

What I'm getting at is this: If there is no more supply available, what's going to happen to power prices?

[Barry Penner]

We are seeing an upward trend. In British Columbia, the B.C. government has ordered rates to go up 3.5% per year for the next two years, so that's a 7% increase in two years. That's just a down payment. We have a big bill coming called the Site C dam. We've talked about it several times today. That's $16 billion, which we haven't really started paying for yet.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

That 3.5% seems to be higher than the level of inflation.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

There seems to be a black square on the screen on this side, which is preventing us from seeing the witnesses properly. I don't know if other people are seeing the thing as me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Are you talking about the black square on the right side of the screen? Okay.

We'll take a moment to look at that.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Are we paused?

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

The technical issue has been resolved.

Mr. Bexte, you have another minute.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Extra time will be given to you.