Evidence of meeting #20 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was homes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Parkland, AB
Can you confirm, though, that there is a provincial issue with a mandatory opt-in? Is that a provincial responsibility?
Vice President, Sustainability and Corporate Affairs, Wawanesa Mutual
I can't comment specifically on that.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Parkland, AB
Okay. I'll move on in my final minute and a half of questioning.
I know that this is a study about climate-related disasters, but I've been told that the largest disaster risk for Canada is an earthquake on the west coast, and that's not necessarily a climate-related risk.
Mr. Stewart, could you elaborate for us? You know, it's not an unlikely scenario. Are we, as a country, prepared for it? If not, what do we need to start doing now to prepare?
Author, As an Individual
This is the issue that keeps insurance executives up at night more than any other: the possibility of a Cascadia subduction earthquake. After the 2011 earthquake that happened off the coast of Japan, which was far greater than any modelling had predicted—that was a 9.0—there was an analysis done globally on where else such big earthquakes could happen. Unfortunately, off the coast of B.C. is one of those zones. It is difficult to imagine the extent. Essentially, the continental shelf would basically drop six feet, so Delta, B.C., would be underwater. You would basically have the ocean just flood-roll in.
This is—in the words of a previous OSFI superintendent—an event that will happen; we just don't know when.
Author, As an Individual
It could happen soon. The last significant quake.... The periodicity of these quakes over time is about one every 500 years. The last one was 300 years ago.
That's the event that we worry about the most.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Angelo Iacono
Thank you very much.
Mrs. Miedema, the floor is yours for six minutes.
Liberal
Shannon Miedema Liberal Halifax, NS
I know very well the pain of trying to negotiate a buyout program from a city role, with the provincial counterpart, using the available federal dollars. This is a hard question, and maybe there are no good answers.
Do you have any suggestions on what the federal government could do, aside from playing a convening role or maybe a strategy that has no teeth, to actually enable buyout programs for very at-risk homes and neighbourhoods?
In Nova Scotia, there's one along the Bedford Basin. In that area, it floods up the staircases of the basements fairly regularly. We were hoping that the province would enable a buyout program whereby the city actually took over the land and made it a park or a public space using federally available dollars, but they didn't want to do that.
Do you have any suggestions on a path forward for that type of situation, between a rock and a hard place?
Mr. Stewart, would you like to start?
Author, As an Individual
It's a very difficult question. Public Safety Canada analyzed it extensively in the course of preparing that report. There are good examples across the country. The best example is the Province of Quebec, which did introduce a buyout program. Unfortunately, the price of the buyout was about $200,000 on average, which was too low to entice people to accept it.
Where Public Safety Canada landed was that the best timing for it is after an event. Instead of rebuilding, that's when you try to offer people money, so that they don't rebuild in harm's way.
It's difficult to get people to leave unless you somehow make it a mandatory buyout program, which is sometimes politically very difficult.
There is a lot of great experience across the country with these buyout programs that you can learn from. High River in Alberta is the one that's held up as probably the most successful.
At least putting the framework in place would be good. The SOREM discussions with the provinces on this topic are quite far along. They have discussed it; it's not new, so there is a foundation to build upon.
Liberal
Shannon Miedema Liberal Halifax, NS
I have a question for Wawanesa folks. We heard in the first hour some commentary about the devaluation of homes and properties from risk.
I actually thought that Intact had a study showing that there was more of a perception of a devaluation of property than a reality. Does anyone have any updated figures or study on that? If they are in a flood-prone or fire-prone area, are their values actually decreasing?
Director, Sustainability and Climate Resilience, Wawanesa Mutual
We encourage the government to continue to work to improve hazard data, so that Canadians understand their risks. With that, we also encourage the focus on risk reduction rather than risk transfer, but we don't have any current stats at this moment.
Author, As an Individual
There's a body of work on this south of the border. The sense is that immediately after an event, devaluation occurs, but people tend to think it's not going to happen to them and tend to be optimistic. That's why people still buy homes in Miami Beach, which is going to be under water in 20 to 30 years. It's why people still buy homes in high earthquake-prone zones.
The most clear example in Canada is when the City of Edmonton released flood-zone maps. There was great fear that there would be devaluation of home prices in areas that were at high risk on those maps. It didn't occur to the extent that city council in Edmonton expected it to happen.
Devaluation can happen right after an event has happened, but people have short memories. That's the best way to put it.
Liberal
Shannon Miedema Liberal Halifax, NS
Mr. Muir, do you have any comments on that?
I know that you also participated in a class action suit for Oakville. Do you have any comments on municipal-federal interactions, property values and lawsuits, in the time I have remaining?
December 8th, 2025 / 12:35 p.m.
Manager, Stormwater, Environmental Services, Corporation of the City of Markham
Yes, I could comment on how to get the flood-prone properties out of the flood plain. The DMAF program did include funding for property purchase. In the naturalized flood plain reclamation wetland that we are building right now in Markham, the land purchase was funded through DMAF. We could show a positive benefit-cost ratio and even buy those properties at market value.
In terms of impacts on watersheds with development, such as in that Oakville case, I think it's important to have strong watershed managers and conservation authorities looking at the cumulative effects of development, so that we can avoid increasing existing risks.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Stewart, can you give us any figures on the rising insurance costs for property owners in recent years? Does the trend show that insurance is becoming more and more expensive?
Author, As an Individual
The best data source on this is the consumer price index. Statistics Canada has a component of the shelter index that focuses on property and mortgage insurance. When you take a look at the last 22 years, since the CPI index has been introduced and monitored, the two components of the shelter index that have risen the most are fuel oil and property insurance. The number has gone up in that time, I think, about 370%. Yes, we have the numbers, and we can track them on a provincial basis.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Can some of the increase in insurance costs be directly attributed to the costs of extreme weather events?
Author, As an Individual
Absolutely. Inflation, the cost of replacement materials such as lumber and the cost of labour all factor into that. The bottom line is that insurers price risk, and the risk has escalated significantly across Canada, particularly since 2009. It's been a driving factor. I know that my colleagues whom you heard from this morning, both Dr. Feltmate and Dr. Kovacs, have done a fair amount of work on assessing exactly this.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Can you provide the committee with any documentation on that, to help us get a clearer sense of the costs?
Also, are there any figures showing that insurance costs are higher for farmers as a result of extreme weather events?
Author, As an Individual
I suspect that we do have the numbers; however, crop insurance is run under a federally run program. They probably have those numbers. The property and casualty insurance industry doesn't have those numbers.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
All right.
Mr. Leibl, you maintain that climate change and increased risks and insurance costs are connected. Isn't that right?