Evidence of meeting #33 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vehicles.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Tessier  Director General, Automotive, Transportation and Industrial Skills Branch, Department of Industry
Cauchi  Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
van der Kamp  Executive Director, Decarbonization Programs, Department of Natural Resources

Noon

Executive Director, Decarbonization Programs, Department of Natural Resources

Anna van der Kamp

Yes, the investment of the $1.5 billion from the Canada Infrastructure Bank is already in play. They are already committing their funds. They've already committed $630 million to charging across the country. If I understand the question, that is an active file for sure right now. There is a focus at the Canada Infrastructure Bank's program on fast public charging and revenue generating, so they're really trying to bring in private investment.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shannon Miedema

Thank you very much.

As we have witnesses for a full two hours, I'm going to suspend for a few minutes for a quick health break, and then we will resume.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Shannon Miedema

We are going to get started again.

We are going to start on round two with Mr. Leslie for six minutes, please.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The government says, “a larger percentage of EVs will be required by all companies to meet the standard over time.” That's from the backgrounder as part of the news release of the new plan. To me, that sounds like the same old Liberal EV mandate plan with a new coat of paint.

What is that percentage?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

The government has been clear on the targets that it wants to achieve, the target of 75% of EV sales by 2035 and, I think, an aspirational target of 90% by 2040. Of course, that's consistent with a long-term trajectory getting to net zero—

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Is the 75% based on today's market? Is that a best-case scenario? Is that just a random number picked?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

That comes from a decision made based on a variety of variables informing decision-making.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

You've done modelling to suggest that, based on the current trajectory and the subsidies as planned for the next.... I'm unclear if it's a four- or five-year plan that's been outlined here. Is that what we can expect to get to?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

There are a variety of things in play here. You mentioned the subsidies. The rebate is definitely factored in. We're definitely seeing in that the technical feasibility piece, supply and demand issues—

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

You're confident that this is what's going to happen. We're going to get 75% adoption. Is that going to happen?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

That is the target the government has announced.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

I mentioned modelling, and you alluded to it previously regarding GHG emissions reductions modelling. I'm hoping you can table with the committee the modelling that was done under the previous electrical availability standards, the mandate and the modelling that has been done under the new plan, side by side, so we can see the difference on a year-by-year basis as to how many emissions will be reduced for both plans.

Can you do that?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

The government is going to be publishing in the Canada Gazette that modelling with the proposed regulation. That modelling will be dependent on the parameters that are set in the regulations.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Will that include the modelling that was done for the previous...? Will it be side by side?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

It will be a comparison of previous modelling and new modelling.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

When is that going to happen? Is that typical for the gazetting process?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

Yes, that is part of the RIAS, the regulatory impact analysis statement, that is a requirement of any federal regulation that goes before the Governor in Council. It is going to include and has included the cost benefit associated with any regulation. That will be the case in this case. We do intend to publish later this year in the Gazette.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

There's been a lot of talk about air pollution and deaths in some Health Canada reports. Will you be tabling modelling on the number of deaths that could be prevented under the previous electric vehicle availability standard and the new model?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

That's maybe a question more for Health Canada, but we'll definitely communicate that to Health Canada.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Could you contact them and have them provide whatever is possible?

You mentioned the RIAS. How much does the department expect the new tailpipe regulations under this new plan to raise the price of new vehicles in Canada?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

One of the criticisms that we saw of the previous approach was the impact on vehicle prices, and certainly that was a major issue raised during the EVAS review. We did, as you know, a national review. We will see, and Canadians are experiencing this now, vehicle prices increasing because of tariffs, etc. It's not just EVs.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

I understand. What do you expect prices to go up by based on this policy alone?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

That will be published in the Canada Gazette as well.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Do you know that right now?

12:10 p.m.

Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

Mark Cauchi

We are dependent on parameters. I'm not in a position to give you, for example, interim stringency values, numeric values, so that would determine what the—