Evidence of meeting #33 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vehicles.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
When the announcement was made, there was no understanding of what the impact would be on prices?
Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
No, that's not true. We know that there would be a reduction in costs associated with this policy, and certainly the auto sector has provided information to that effect.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
You knew there would be an increase in prices? That was known, just not by how much?
Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
The auto sector has been fairly clear, I think, even in the media about the costs associated with the previous regulation. It sought the approach the government has announced to reduce costs. I believe they did table some anticipated costs associated with the EVAS, and we've definitely taken that under advisement.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Okay.
Right now, how many Canadian EVs are on the market that can take advantage of the full rebate as of today?
Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
That's probably a question for our colleagues at Transport Canada who manage the rebate program.
Conservative
Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Yes.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I noticed that the rebates are declining. They start at $5,000, and by 2030, they're down to $2,000. Why is the sliding scale of cuts happening on the rebate side?
Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Again, I think that's probably a question for our colleagues at Transport Canada who manage that program. However, I think we can say that price parity is an important factor here as well, and as we see EV prices gradually come down over time, and there's some evidence to show they are coming down already—
Conservative
Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Whether the rebates are needed at certain levels is something that they can probably address for you.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Has the department done any estimates on the average household income of people who are expected to receive this rebate over the next four years?
Director General, Energy and Transportation, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
That kind of distribution analysis on their rebate would be something you need to talk to Transport Canada about. Unfortunately they're not here.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Okay. I think we should have another meeting, because I have many other questions in this space regarding what the impact is going to be in terms of who's going to get these rebates. At the end of the day, unless price points go down, unless we bring in a whole bunch of cheap Chinese EVs, most people who are going to buy these vehicles are going to already be able to buy them.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shannon Miedema
Thank you, Mr. Leslie.
I will now turn to Mr. Greaves for six minutes, please.
Liberal
Will Greaves Liberal Victoria, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for sticking around.
I'm going to pick up exactly where my colleague left off.
As we're aware, the Prime Minister and the government have recently negotiated tariff relief with China, which allows for a certain number of Chinese-made EVs to enter the Canadian market. I'd just like to give you the opportunity to elaborate on the details of that, specifically with the focus on making lower-cost EVs available to Canadians.
Monsieur Tessier, can you speak to how many there will be and what the anticipated price point of those new EVs in the Canadian market will be?
Director General, Automotive, Transportation and Industrial Skills Branch, Department of Industry
Obviously, the partnership agreement with China is the responsibility of Global Affairs. I can summarize essentially what was published in terms of this negotiation, but as you point out, the 49,000 quota that was accorded to China was accompanied by a low-price EV reserve. It's expected that within the next five years, 50% of those EVs coming from that country will be below $35,000.
Liberal
Will Greaves Liberal Victoria, BC
As 50% of the EVs have been permitted under the recent agreement, do you have any reason to think there might be more EVs made available in the future, which would increase the availability of lower-cost EVs for Canadians?
Director General, Automotive, Transportation and Industrial Skills Branch, Department of Industry
Absolutely, I think that, naturally, EVs have been going down.... With the price of the batteries and technological improvements, all of this made EVs cheaper across the globe, including in Canada, and they continue to go down. Absolutely, that will also continue for the next five years, for sure.
Liberal
Will Greaves Liberal Victoria, BC
Okay. Thank you.
We heard today and in previous meetings concerns from our colleagues about affordability, about whether or not EVs are essentially a luxury good that won't be available to everyday Canadians, to middle-class families. We know this isn't true. We know that much of the rest of the world is already transitioning towards EVs. We know that more than half of the vehicles sold in the world last year were electric vehicles, so we know that incorrect information has been circulating around this issue.
I'm wondering whether any of you could speak to what the government might be able to do to communicate this information more clearly to Canadians about the savings associated with transitioning towards EVs. Is there a strategy in place to communicate how much the annual household savings might be, as we previously discussed, Ms. van der Kamp, or the increasing affordability of the EVs entering the Canadian market? Can we get this information to Canadians to help dispel some of the half-truths that are out there?
Executive Director, Decarbonization Programs, Department of Natural Resources
Maybe I could take that question, as I am responsible for education and awareness for EVs.
The federal government certainly has a ZEV hub in which we are publishing this information, but I would also say, very importantly, that we are supporting organizations across the country that are the trusted sources for Canadians on this matter and are, actually, on the ground. We have funded many projects, over 100, across the country on education and awareness with respect to EVs, for a variety of different topics and decision-makers. We're definitely doing that already.
As part of the national charging infrastructure strategy, one of the main pillars of that is going to be education of Canadians, businesses and workers.
Liberal
Will Greaves Liberal Victoria, BC
Thank you for that. It's great to hear that this is something that falls under your responsibilities at NRCan.
Would that information and communication campaign also include some of the information you shared earlier, in terms of the availability of charging stations, making people aware that, in most instances, they actually live in communities that are served by this kind of infrastructure? Similarly, that would be information useful for Canadians to have access to.
Executive Director, Decarbonization Programs, Department of Natural Resources
We certainly do want to make that more apparent to Canadians. We have a national charging locator map already, which is public for Canadians. It has every public charger available in Canada there for folks to see. Also, there are several other companies that provide that information.
Liberal
Will Greaves Liberal Victoria, BC
Okay. Thank you.
I'll go back to Monsieur Tessier.
The question around what failing to transition towards a cleaner economy and a cleaner industrial sector means for Canada's international competitiveness is a large one that touches on many different issues. However, it's certainly relevant here as well.
We've heard suggestions that Canada shouldn't or cannot get out of alignment with the United States. However, given the current circumstances in the United States, I would hope that it's an aberration that the U.S. government is not currently supportive of this transition and that it's going to be a very difficult position for the United States to maintain going into the future.
Can you speak briefly about what the risks to Canada are of not transitioning our own economy towards cleaner energy and lower emissions at a time when that is what the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world is attempting to do?