Environment Committee on May 7th, 2026

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

Thank you very much.

I'll be sharing my time with the member for Victoria.

Ms. El Bied, I want to give you a chance to respond. The member opposite didn't give you much of a chance to respond and talk about how good the program is. How will this program benefit Canadians?

[Kenza El Bied]

Thank you for the question.

Public Safety Canada put a lot of work into setting up this project. There are a few things to consider, the first being climate change. I should point out that the federal government's existing flood hazard zone classifications are based on present conditions; they don't currently take climate change into account.

The climate science needed for Canada-wide flood mapping is still in its infancy, and there's no scientific consensus at this time. Accurate information does not exist, and the level of uncertainty remains very high.

Given that level of uncertainty, we opted to use the research tool to provide Canadians with climate-adjusted flood risk information. This information may be confusing and may even contradict the record, although climate change is expected to increase the frequency and severity of flooding in many regions, based on current models.

That's why Public Safety Canada launched and partially funded a major research project by the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada in collaboration with university partners. The purpose of the project is to develop a Canadian flood model that will be an open source of information for everyone. It should produce a climate-smart model by 2029.

The information that will be available in the portal will also complement the information we'll provide in the future.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

Thank you very much for explaining that. I'll give Mr. Greaves the rest of my time.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you and good morning, colleagues.

Good morning, witnesses. Thank you for being with us.

I'd like to start with two brief questions for Mr. DeMarco.

Thank you for being here, Commissioner. Just in the interest of time, could you keep your answers brief? A yes or no is fine unless you have more information that you'd like to add.

Given the scale of the federal government's assets—roughly in the neighbourhood of 100 billion dollars' worth of public assets—and the increasing severity and frequency of climate-related extreme weather events and other kinds of impacts, would you agree that investing in climate adaptation and climate-resilient infrastructure is a necessity for the federal government to be a responsible steward of those public assets?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

Absolutely...yes.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you.

In the same vein, then, would you also agree that recognizing the reality of climate change and the scientific basis underpinning our understanding of climate change, including the role of human activities in making climate change happen faster and more aggressively, is also necessary for the government to fulfill its obligations to safeguard the public assets in its care?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

Yes.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

That's excellent. Thank you for that, sir.

My next question is for Ms. Wood from DFO. Thank you for joining us online.

I'm very excited, of course, with the government's recent announcement of the investment of approximately $1 billion in small craft harbours across the country. This is something that will benefit many communities that are reliant upon access to the water and the harbour infrastructure that supports local jobs, livelihoods, culture and identity, including in my province of British Columbia.

Could you please elaborate on what specific innovations or measures are being taken to ensure those upgrades in small craft harbour infrastructure will be more resilient in the face of extreme weather events and other climate impacts?

[Candice Wood, Director, Engineering and Technical Services, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you for the question.

What we do within our regular life-cycle asset management is that we always ensure climate resiliency is integrated. This is done simply by using the latest codes and standards, which incorporate climate resiliency measures for such things as pavement and bridge structures that are very similar to the wharves we install.

We also have some internal tools that help us project sea-level rise. Especially as we're building infrastructure such as breakwaters, which have a long life, we want to project what the sea level will be over the lifespan of the breakwater. With that funding, that's how we manage and ensure that things are climate-resilient.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Patrick Bonin]

Colleagues, we're a little ahead of schedule. Would you rather take a short break or continue?

You'd rather continue. Okay.

Shall we start another six-minute round for each party—Conservative, Liberal and Bloc?

[Bruce Fanjoy, Liberal, Carleton, ON]

I have a point of order. I wanted to ask the witnesses if they needed a break.

Is everyone good?

Okay. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Patrick Bonin]

That's very thoughtful of you, my dear colleague.

For the Conservatives, we'll go to Ms. Kronis.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. El Bied, I want to pick up where my colleague left off.

You were explaining that your department spent $11 million on a flood risk awareness portal that doesn't work, has data that isn't evergreen and no province has yet opted into. Is that correct?

[Kenza El Bied]

Yes.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

My understanding is that the reason that B.C. hasn't opted in is that it is not sure that your data matches its data. Is that correct?

[Kenza El Bied]

No, and I can elaborate on that.

We have done a lot of work with B.C. and with other jurisdictions, but for B.C., specifically, the data is meant to be complementary. Our datasets and the provincial datasets are meant to be complementary. I have not heard a reason why it has not opted in, but we are working with all PTs and all jurisdictions to have them opt in on this tool.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Your data isn't evergreen. Is B.C.'s data evergreen?

[Kenza El Bied]

I don't know.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Okay.

The report indicates that less than half of the mapping projects that are currently under way cover high-risk zones that your department identified in 2022.

Can you tell me how you justify mapping low-risk areas when the most vulnerable Canadians remain unprotected?

[Kenza El Bied]

I'm going to turn it to my colleague at NRCan.

[Rinaldo Jeanty]

I'll take that question and thank you for that.

What you'll see in the report is that the commissioner has identified a list of preliminary analyses that were done at the federal government level to enable conversations to happen with our provincial colleagues. There is absolutely no map that has been produced that has not been prioritized by the provinces or that does not reflect a high-risk area.

That preliminary list was meant to be used as a piece of analysis to help us begin conversations. With the local data and information that our provincial colleagues have at their disposal, we create the maps on that basis so, to date, every dollar spent has been based on high-risk maps and prioritized areas identified by our provincial and territorial partners.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

You're saying that dollars are well spent, but we've just established that the portal isn't usable. Commissioner DeMarco noted in his opening statements that government departments have collectively spent more than $230 million to produce tools that aren't useful, usable or produced in a timely manner.

As a result, the report concludes, “Canadians face escalating risks and higher disaster recovery costs”.

Do you know who bears these costs in British Columbia?

[Rinaldo Jeanty]

I would say that, yes, there is an opportunity for us to accelerate.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

However, do you know who bears the costs? When this government and your department spend money and produce things that aren't useful, usable or produced in a timely manner, as the commissioner and these reports have pointed out, do you know who bears the actual results?

Do you know who bears the outcomes of those risks and those costs?