Evidence of meeting #5 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was targets.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
You're not currently lobbying the government on the consumer tax. Okay.
Have you met with the recently formed Liberal environment caucus on carbon taxes at all?
Executive Director, Climate Action Network Canada
Last week, we took part in a meeting organized by Eric St‑Pierre, an MP. We've talked about a number of climate policies, including carbon pricing, especially as it relates to industry.
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
What data did you provide to them to justify increasing the carbon tax or an alternative, the consumer carbon tax?
Executive Director, Climate Action Network Canada
No data was provided, because it wasn't part of our discussion at the time.
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
I'm sorry. I had my microphone off. Did you hear my question?
Executive Director, Climate Action Network Canada
Yes, I heard that.
There was no data provided by Climate Action Network Canada on that, because it wasn't part of our discussion at the time.
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
What would you say to them if you had the chance to ask them and that was a topic of discussion?
Liberal
Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I have a point of order.
I believe that Madam Brouillette referred to the member of Parliament Eric St-Pierre and not the climate caucus. I just want to make that clarification.
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
Again, to reiterate, if you had the chance, what would you ask them to do? What would you ask this caucus to do, this Liberal government to do, related to climate pricing?
Executive Director, Climate Action Network Canada
I'm going to follow the example of several politicians who don't answer hypothetical questions. I'm not going to waste time on hypotheticals.
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
Okay. I understand that, I suppose.
You made a point that about $12,000 per household is a big part of the inflation related to fossil fuels. That's suspiciously close to the cumulative amount of the consumer carbon tax that households are facing. How do you square that math? The inflation was related to the carbon tax, and the carbon tax is off, so the extra price that people were.... You claimed the math....
Could you comment on that?
Executive Director, Climate Action Network Canada
There's a perception that climate policies are costly. The reality is that climate impacts are costly to people, including the impacts of an economy that has an overreliance on very volatile commodities in the form of fossil fuels.
As I mentioned earlier, from 2022 to 2024, there was a spike in oil prices, which meant a rise in energy prices. That was the $12,000 figure that I referred to.
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
Yes. That was a transitory, short-term thing. It was not really a systemic thing. It's just the nature of the energy markets globally.
I'd like to switch.
Mr. Donner, the advisory body previously stated that Canada needs to adopt a 55% emissions reduction target by 2035. However, the government has only succeeded in reducing emissions by 8.5% from their 2005 levels.
You stated that you still hold this belief that this is the target, but with the government not even reaching a quarter of this objective by 2035, with only five years left until the deadline, what gives?
Professor, Net-Zero Advisory Body
We had the legislated duty to give advice on the interim emissions reduction targets. That's our duty under the Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act. The minister asked us to give advice on what we thought the 2035 target should be. To be clear, on that advice, we take into account not only Canada's domestic situation, but also Canada's role in international obligations. Therefore, that target which we advised on was based on what would be necessary, we think—
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
I'm sorry. Maybe I wasn't clear. The nature of the question was whether you still hold the belief that this is achievable and how.
Professor, Net-Zero Advisory Body
I think that's the wrong way to ask the question, to be honest.
The question is this: What is an appropriate target that will keep us on the path to net zero by 2050 and that is consistent with other countries?
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
I'm sorry, but it's not a question of the target. The target's fine. Irrespective of the target, is it achievable and how?
Professor, Net-Zero Advisory Body
For one, we need to dramatically change course right now because we need to finish implementing the things that are in the emissions reduction plan and then move on to additional measures beyond that. That's all contained in our advice from last year.
October 2nd, 2025 / 12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Ellis Ross
I'll intervene here.
I forgot to mention that on the second round, the rounds of questions are five minutes and not six minutes. I did allow it to go over time there a bit to try to get the answer in.
Now we will go to Mr. Fanjoy.
Liberal
Bruce Fanjoy Liberal Carleton, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for joining us today.
Madam Brouillette, earlier in your testimony you said that we may be challenged in meeting our targets, and that it's unevenly distributed across the economy. Some parts of the economy are making good progress while others are lagging. You also talked about the inflationary effects.
I'd like to give you an opportunity to finish what you were saying when you were cut off.
Executive Director, Climate Action Network Canada
Thank you.
I think in this moment with the crises that we're facing, whether it's the commercial trade war led by President Trump, whether it's the increasingly devastating and frequent impacts of climate change, including the heartbreaking summer we've just had with thousands of Canadians being displaced, folks in cities choking because of smoke, as well as the affordability crisis that I think we're all feeling, they are intersecting. The inflation we're seeing, as was mentioned earlier, is systemic. It is part of a very volatile fossil fuel-anchored energy system. One of the opportunities we have, in terms of transforming our economy as we seek to reduce our dependence on exports to the United States, a large share of which are oil and gas, is to invest in sectors that are less sensitive to volatility, whether we're talking about renewable energy or electric-based technology. The sun and the wind cannot be controlled by a belligerent world leader. They also are much more affordable. Technologies like heat pumps, energy efficiency, better insulation, electric-based vehicles, e-bikes, etc., are also less costly and can help us in the face of a cost of living crisis.
Liberal
Bruce Fanjoy Liberal Carleton, ON
Thank you.
I'd like to talk a bit more about electrification. I've yet to find someone who has electrified transportation or home heating who has wished that they hadn't. In my experience, and there could be exceptions, of course, people find that these technologies are improving their lives, and yet we're moving slowly, perhaps too slowly, in adopting these technologies.
I put this question to all of our witnesses. What would you like to see? What do you think would help Canadians adopt these technologies more rapidly, and how could the government facilitate that?
Scientific Director, Trottier Energy Institute, Polytechnique Montréal, As an Individual
If I may, we need a real industrial approach to this electrification, which means that we need to structure the service industry to make sure we lower the prices.
We need to have real strategies. Prices can be transformed by installing more, by targeting or changing regulations when needed. We can lower prices for heat pumps. Heat pumps should be much cheaper than they are today. When you look around the world, in fact, electrifying is a way to decrease the cost of these services, because we use much less energy, have much better control, and we improve the quality of the service, as you were mentioning.
It's the same thing for cars. I think we can not only ban the cheaper car around, but we have to see how we can leverage this to move, and we have to move on the other technologies, such as heavy transport.
I would say let's leave oil and gas on the side and focus on changing the use and service while increasing the production of electricity, and we'll get there more efficiently.