Evidence of meeting #6 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was policy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Bruce Fanjoy Liberal Carleton, ON
Thank you very much.
Thank you, witnesses.
My first question is for Dr. Exner-Pirot.
I believe I heard you correctly when you said that greenhouse gas emissions are contributing to climate change. Is that correct?
Director, Energy, Natural Resources and Environment, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
Liberal
Bruce Fanjoy Liberal Carleton, ON
I want to imagine a not-too-distant future when Canada and the world are increasingly dependent on clean and renewable energy. Can you please elaborate on why Canadians, having shifted to electric vehicles for transportation, electric buses for public transportation and heat pumps and electricity for heating their homes, should shift back to a fossil fuel, whether it's Canadian or from any other nationality? Why they would be persuaded backwards if it's going to increase greenhouse gas emissions?
Director, Energy, Natural Resources and Environment, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
I wouldn't convince anyone to shift back. I would have an EV myself. I have nothing against EVs. I wouldn't mind having a Tesla as part of an assortment. No one is asking to shift back. There are people who still use fossil fuels, which, as you must know, make up about 81% of the globe's primary energy source. There's no way to displace what fossil fuels do in heating and in many transportation sectors today. We don't have the technology to displace what they provide in those sectors. It's about being realistic.
We often discuss it in terms of this trilemma of affordability, reliability and sustainability, but I always say that it's not a trilemma; it's a hierarchy. You have to have reliability and affordability before you can achieve sustainability. I think we've taken our eye off the affordability and reliability pieces.
We see what's happening in Prince Edward Island, where they all shifted to heat pumps when the government subsidized heat pumps, and now they don't have electricity. The utility is submitting emergency applications to build more natural gas-fired electricity, because they're not sure if they're going to have enough electricity for all of those heat pumps this winter.
It's about the government not doing top-down, heavy-handed things that inevitably come with unintended consequences. It's about making the right incentives in the market for people to choose what's best for them and have that consumer choice.
Liberal
Bruce Fanjoy Liberal Carleton, ON
Thanks very much.
I'd like to hear from the other witnesses on the solutions that exist today for people who have adopted heat pumps and other solutions.
Are they reliable? Have they improved affordability?
President, The Transition Accelerator
Heat pumps, specifically in the case of Prince Edward Island, have been very advantageous from an economic perspective. Reliance on heating oil in Atlantic Canada actually makes Atlantic Canada one of the most expensive places to operate heating in your home. Even if you have natural gas, it's at the end of the line. It's more expensive.
Ultimately, the problem is not that we can't service that electricity demand. We can. It's just about aligning the planning correctly. In this case, there was a big jump in demand. People were flocking to this because of how economically attractive it was.
I think it's definitely a reliable source of heating. However, I would again mention—we're very careful about this and I want to be clear—that it's not advantageous across the board. How do you start with the places where it is a slam dunk and use that to kick-start the market transformation in terms of installers, distributors and even potentially manufacturers here in Canada, so we can do the market transformation across the board as it becomes more advantageous in different jurisdictions?
Principal Economist, Canadian Climate Institute
I had a place in P.E.I. for 30 years, and the worst thing was the light fuel oil tank in the basement. There were higher insurance costs, it smelled, it was a health risk and it didn't cool in the summer. P.E.I.'s gotten really hot, so the heating and cooling load.... I think the movement to heat pumps with heating.... Look, these technologies are just better and cheaper, and they do the job.
Liberal
Bruce Fanjoy Liberal Carleton, ON
Dr. Exner-Pirot commented earlier on the reserves that Canada has in fossil fuels, particularly in the oil sands.
I'd like to open this question up to all to talk about the clean and renewable energy potential of Canada. It's not a scarce energy like fossil fuel. I'd like to hear your reflections on the potential for clean and renewable energy relative to other countries.
President, The Transition Accelerator
When we look at the potential in terms of offshore wind right now in Atlantic Canada and the big push there, and Ontario's expansion on nuclear with the small modular reactors, which are the first in the G7, I think the potential is massive.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Angelo Iacono
Thank you very much.
I would like to thank all witnesses for their testimony today. It is greatly appreciated. On behalf of the committee, please accept our gratitude for your contributions to this study.
The witnesses are excused. This meeting will suspend while we proceed in camera.
[Proceedings continue in camera]