Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 16th, 2006

[Ken Rubin]

Mr. Kenny, don't punish us if we don't have particular names.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'm not punishing you. I'm asking you a question.

[Ken Rubin]

Your motion opened a Pandora's box, because what's perfectly legal and, as some witnesses have said, has perfectly good guidelines may be wrong, and that's what I and others have been testifying to.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

But you've had an opportunity to testify on and off for two hours. I'm asking a specific question. Is the answer yes or no: do you have any information of this practice?

[Ken Rubin]

I have already in my testimony suggested some examples, yes.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Then you have concrete evidence you can furnish us with.

[Ken Rubin]

If someone wants further information than what I've said, I'll give it to them, but it's very hard to get the documentation.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

So you don't have documentary evidence, then.

[Ken Rubin]

I have some.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Can you please furnish us with it?

[Ken Rubin]

If it's the will of the committee—

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'm a results-oriented person.

[Ken Rubin]

I asked at the beginning of the hearing if I could table some of the documents I have.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Please do.

[Ken Rubin]

Doesn't that require...?

[Col Michel Drapeau]

Do I have documentary evidence of a recent...[Inaudible—Editor]? The answer is no. Do I have a conviction that it has taken place, is taking place as we speak? Yes.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

You believe names of ATI applicants are going to political staff.

[Col Michel Drapeau]

Yes, names are going to political staff, administrative staff.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

You believe it's happening, Colonel Drapeau, even though you say you have no evidence for it.

[Col Michel Drapeau]

The evidence I have is anecdotal. It dates back quite a few years. In some cases, I would not be in a position to disclose it. I got this conviction based on my experience on a day-to-day basis.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

My question wasn't about conviction. You just said that you had anecdotal evidence. What does that consist of?

[Col Michel Drapeau]

Anecdotal evidence of comments being made by third parties.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Rumours.

[Col Michel Drapeau]

No, the comments were made to me, and I was aware that a request had been made either by me or by somebody on my behalf to a specific department. This has happened more than once.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

So you are talking about third-hand comments, but you have no evidence, nothing you can furnish us with to confirm that this practice has occurred.