Evidence of meeting #10 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs, Canadian Newspaper Association
My answer was made earlier when I said that if you identify media requests and put them in a sidecar, and you know that there are only five people who could have made a media request—that there are only five people who routinely make requests to that department on it—and there's one journalist who's been writing about it, you're going to guess rightly who that journalist is.
4:45 p.m.
A voice
So what?
4:45 p.m.
Gollob
So the contention is that as soon as a request is identified as a media request, some degree of violation has occurred, because who you are should not be relevant for the request to be processed.
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
The issue isn't really how much of a public personality you are or how much they can find out about you. The issue is, are you going to let them get the information? Do you freely feel they should get it? And are you going to waste everybody's time by speculating, or are you going to get on with your job of governing the country?
4:50 p.m.
Lawyer, As an Individual
It's one thing guessing that this probably will come from a media source, because of the subject matter and being told precisely what the identity of the individual is.
That's why I equivocated as to whether or not this is a violation. It's not a violation of one's privacy, even for you to guess, but it would be a violation of privacy for the name of the requester to be disclosed and then used for a purpose for which it was never designed, never consented to.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Yes, that's what we're trying to get to the bottom of.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you.
I think it would be a great help to this committee going ahead—because of the great expertise that you three have—if you could give us, in writing, what changes you think we should make.
Would that bother any of you?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you.
Just so I'm very clear, two of you disagree completely with deputy commissioner Leadbeater that a minister should not be apprised of a request even though he might have to answer to it in public.
Mr. Gollob.
4:50 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs, Canadian Newspaper Association
Apprised of the identity of the requester.
4:50 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs, Canadian Newspaper Association
I don't recall making any objection to the content, but the identity.
4:50 p.m.
Lawyer, As an Individual
I have difficulty with the way you've phrased it. I would certainly not give my consent that a minister can or has to know the identity in order to answer in public. I'm saying for reasons of state, and it could be national security, an issue of immigration, it could be a whole range of issues. Exceptionally, a minister also has a right to know for reasons of state. I'm saying very exceptionally he may ask the person to whom he has delegated this authority, on a very specific occasion, who is this? He has to know for a precise reason, and that would be one in ten thousand. It wouldn't be a regular occurrence.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON
So I'm clear, the content of the request as opposed to the identity of the requester can be made known to the minister and/or his staff. No problem there?
4:50 p.m.
Lawyer, As an Individual
The content itself? Of course not, because that's going to become public.
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I still have a problem with the parallel system you're describing. If the minister--and you were a minister too--is on top of his portfolio and knows about it, he should be able to defend himself in the House and the House cards can be prepared. To divert all this into the latest access request seems to me to be a colossal waste of taxpayers' money. It's a system of risk management, it's not a system of good governance and answering questions in the House of Commons.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON
Certainly, you don't want the minister to know the identity of the requester. Am I right?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON
In the circumstances referred to by Colonel Drapeau, you wouldn't go along with him on that--the one in ten thousand where the identity should be made known?
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I don't think so. I still feel there are a lot of other queries the government gets, not through access to information. What is the government going to do? Are they going to prepare House cards every time a Canadian wants to know something? It's crazy.
