Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 18th, 2006

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

Mr. Laforest.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

What I'm reading in the two documents doesn't appear to be the same thing at all. Mr. Kenney distributed a document to us that talks about computer systems in ministers' offices for managing their own records.

Ms. Lavallée's motion, which refers to the Ottawa Citizen article, refers to a confidential computer system designed to hold ministerial documents, whereas Mr. Kenney's document refers to a number of computer systems of a number of ministers' offices. That's not at all the same thing. It would be appropriate for us at least to hear from the Secretary of the Treasury Board so that he can tell us why we're in this situation. If that's consistent with what Mr. Kenney is saying, we'll really have shed some light on the matter.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Laforest.

Mr. Peterson.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I have a slight suggestion here. I'm not sure whether what Mr. Laforest said is absolutely right or not. To save the committee time, I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that with the permission of everybody, of course, we might pass this motion that we'll ask them to appear, but that the Bloc be given time to reconsider in the light of what Mr. Kenney has distributed to maybe arrange meetings with the appropriate officials privately. And that way the witness may not have to come, but if the Bloc is not satisfied after those meetings, then he will come.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chairman, I would just like to reply.

With all due respect to my Bloc colleagues,

I am not seeking to limit the ambit or study of this committee on this important issue of ATI. I think it's a legitimate general issue. But I think we have to efficiently manage our time, and that's the spirit of my intervention.

It's not seeking to put up barriers here to important issues, but simply if a matter is in the public domain we don't need to spend hours studying it deeply.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Peterson, the chair's difficulty is that the motion says that--

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I would propose an amendment, and I won't do it in writing because I don't want to....

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We either carry it, we defeat it, or it's tabled.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I can make an amendment.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You certainly can make an amendment.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

At least we can hear the amendment.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

The amendment would be to the effect that we pass the motion as subject to the right of Madam Lavallée to withdraw it after she has had an opportunity to further consider the matter and perhaps meet with officials provided by Mr. Kenney.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

The clerk is going to have a hard time with that one, Mr. Peterson, and I do too. I question whether it's in order.

Do you have a point of order, Mr. Zed?

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

Yes. I'd like to know why it's not in order, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're saying maybe the clerk would call Mr. Wouters or maybe not. Maybe we'll call him, maybe we won't. We're asking the clerk to do something, and I quite frankly--

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

No, I'm sorry, we're asking the clerk to consult with Madam Lavallée after she has had a chance to further look at this issue to see whether--

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Why don't we table, and then she can go to her meeting.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I have a suggestion that everyone might like.

We could wait a week. I could introduce my motion in a week, gather information and meet with Mr. Wouters. Mr. Kenney could make it so that I can meet Mr. Wouters, together with Mr. Laforest and any other committee members who wish to meet him.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

It's tabled for a week.

The clerk and I both need direction as to where we're going next. We're still on this report. Will we have further witnesses, or will we direct the staff to prepare a report? I need direction.

Mr. Zed.

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

I have a point of information.

Is the chair assuming the chair for a period of time, or--

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

No, he's not. Mr. Wappel will be returning on Wednesday. He did speak to me, Mr. Peterson, Mr. Zed, and he told me that he would be returning Wednesday.

I will be in the chair on Monday.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Chair, I move that we direct staff to prepare a report, and this study will then be finalized.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

All those in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

The staff tell me they need instruction.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Write them out, and I'll tell you what they are.

Oh, you want what the report will say?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

The chair is going to go in camera if you're going to get into that. I believe those types of discussions should be held in camera. We still have time to do that today. We will proceed in camera to deal with that part of it.

The clerk will need instructions, and presumably a report would be available subject to the staff's comments. Presumably that would be presented next Wednesday. Is that fair?