Evidence of meeting #16 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chairman.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Director General, Corporate Services and Comptroller, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I have the forecast.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Well, Mr. Pulcine, just look up the figures for us, if you don't mind, and when you get them, we can be precise about it. Or if you happen to find them while someone else is answering, you could interject.
4 p.m.
Director General, Corporate Services and Comptroller, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I will.
4 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Madam Stoddart, for being here, and welcome.
I have two lines of questioning, first of all dealing with some specific items in budget lines; and second, I have a more general question about the cost implications of a piece of legislation that is coming before the House.
But on the specifics, in this very helpful breakdown of contracts, I guess under the category of contracts over $10,000—and you've broken it down by quarters—I notice that a lot of them are simply management consulting as the category, an awful lot of them, and a lot of those are just under $25,000. I know that's the magic cut-off for whether something has to be tendered or whether you can go sole source.
I'd like your comments on what types of things.... I think it's an awful lot of outside management consulting, and no coincidence that they're all just under $25,000, except for one, which jumps off the page, and that's Wilson, Young Events and the Intertask Group of Companies for $744,000.
I have questions about what management consulting means and why we have to go outside for all those things. And what in heaven's name would Wilson, Young have done for us for $744,000?
4 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Mr. Chairman, I'd be happy to answer those.
The office has needed, and continues to need less, a certain amount of what's called management consulting. These are often either facilitators or people specialized in human resources issues, in management development issues. As you know, the office had severe reconstruction challenges. These people are helping us set up processes and management structures for the first time, often to facilitate meetings, to set our yearly priorities, and things like that. So a good part of these are for doing that.
Others are helping us fill the vacancies we have in our permanent staffing levels. It's a challenge. I can go into this at some point, but it's a real challenge, even when you have the money, to hire the appropriate people in this particular historical context in the Public Service of Canada.
Some of them, for example, I can see, are accountants or people who help with writing documents for public distribution.
That's an overview, honourable member. Let me go on, then, to the $700,000. That is the result of a public tender process that was put on MERX, the government contracting site. The person who won it was awarded that contract for the organization of the international conference that we are hosting in September 2007, to which I made reference as our major public education event for this year.
4 p.m.
Director General, Corporate Services and Comptroller, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Let me add to that. What you're seeing there is the contract value. We anticipate there will be registration fees for participants in the conference, which would reduce the overall cost of that contract from $750,000 or thereabouts, by $500,000, to approximately $250,000. The plan calls for approximately $500,000 worth of revenue—
4 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Okay. That answers my question. I'm always shocked at what things cost, so don't judge by my reaction.
I'm interested too in a bill that was just introduced in the House of Commons that may have serious implications for the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. It's Bill C-31, dealing with the new voter registration cards, whereby the date of birth will go on the permanent voters lists. A lot of people are reacting negatively to this already. They feel that, seeing as voters lists are given out to every candidate in every election, you will now know the name, address, phone number, and date of birth of every person on the voters lists.
Does this cross any lines that your office deals with on a regular basis, or does it cause you concern? Can you anticipate a volume of complaints stemming from something like that?
4:05 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
There's possibly a volume of complaints. There's also possibly a lot more public education to be done about the importance of protection of personal information and treating it as an important thing, so that there aren't leaks and there isn't misuse in all the various structures in which ordinary people would now have access to people's birthdays--don't leave it lying around, make sure the right person gets it, and so on.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I had 460 volunteers in my election campaign, and every one of them was given copies of the permanent voters list so they could sit in front of a phone and phone voters. It would now say name, address, phone number, and date of birth. Doesn't this open the door for that kind of personal information being very widely spread?
4:05 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
It does. I appeared before a committee last spring, and I said that if you move to this kind of step, you have to make sure you think it's absolutely necessary. I haven't been called to appear on that particular bill, but I can say that if and when it is passed into law, I would certainly want to cooperate with the director general of elections in order to try to see how we could make sure that the 450 people who work for you, as for other honourable members, are very clear with the message that this is a sacred trust. Other people's personal information, in the context of elections in a democracy, is very important, and you have to treat this information seriously.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I will continue with the management consulting question Mr. Martin started. For the first six months of this fiscal year the commission is spending $1 million, and for the final quarter of the last fiscal year it was $400,000. Is that right?
4:05 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes. I don't have the figures before me, Mr. Chairman, but I think this year it's probably because we have, after public tender, awarded that contract to the winner.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Oh, no, that's not.... I must confess I have the same reaction as Mr. Martin does. I just don't understand the list. If you go down the list, for a lot of them it just says....
For example, here's Nordicity Group Limited, management consulting, $25,000. I don't mean to pick on that company, but there are other groups, and it just says management consulting, management consulting, management consulting.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Mr. Tilson, excuse me; it won't come off your time. For the purposes of the record, what list are you referring to?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
It's from their website. I took the advice of the Ethics Commissioner and looked at the website. Remember that?
I'm gradually learning what you're supposed to do in this place. I looked at the website. That's how I get my information--which I still find unacceptable.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Just so the record is clear, you're referring to documents on the Privacy Commissioner's website. Okay.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Why are we doing all that? I'm really repeating Mr. Martin's question, and I have the same concern--I mean, it's $1 million just for six months. Then as I said, in the fourth quarter of the last fiscal year it was $400,000. On almost every item it says “management consulting”; it doesn't say what it's for. I'm ignoring the $700,000 item; I'm just looking at all these others. When you start adding up $25,000 here, $25,000 there--
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Well, I'll try to explain this again.
First of all, we have in fact an enhanced budget since April 1, although--
