Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 20th, 2006

[Richard Simpson]

It's an obligation that is transferred from the Canadian organization that is following PIPEDA and the principles under PIPEDA to make sure that a third party, no matter where that third party is located, must, by contract and therefore by law, respect the same principles as are in PIPEDA. So it's by extension.

The Privacy Commissioner will outline the same approach for you when she appears, I think, but she may have issues to discuss with you in terms of whether that covers all situations and how effectively it covers it in relation to a situation of public safety, for example.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Thank you.

The last questioner from the first round is Mr. Tilson. Then we'll go to Mr. Peterson, followed by Mr. Stanton on round two.

Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to pursue the same line of questioning as the chairman and Mr. Martin.

We're actually looking to you for advice. You say you're looking to us for advice; we're looking to you for advice. You've indicated you've had meetings with stakeholders, and I assume you've had some discussions with the Privacy Commissioner.

I'd be interested in getting a list of the proposed or recommended amendments or suggested amendments that you would recommend the committee in turn recommend to Parliament as to where we should go with this, as opposed to our giving it to you. I think it's the other way around. We're charged with reviewing this matter and making recommendations to Parliament and we need your advice.

So I'm going to ask you--I can't believe you haven't sat down and said yes, we should have the following proposed amendments--will you give us that list?

[Michael Binder]

I hate to repeat myself, but you have to ask the minister to do this, because it's only the minister who can actually propose amendments and changes after the internal due process.

I'm not authorized to give you what I personally think is the amendment here.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

All right.

Under Bill C-2, the proposed accountability legislation, VIA Rail, CBC, and a third one—which I can't remember—were moved to the Privacy Act, and it's not covered by PIPEDA. The Privacy Commissioner has indicated that she is concerned about this, and there will be lesser protection under the Privacy Act as opposed to PIPEDA.

Could you please comment?

[Danièle Chatelois, Privacy Policy Analyst, E-Commerce Policy Directorate, Electronic Commerce Branch, Department of Industry]

From what we understand, this proposal was removed from the last version of Bill C-2, and now only the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation is scheduled to be moved over to the Privacy Act.

This was originally done by an order in council on August 31, in which the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation was removed from PIPEDA. It had originally been brought under the act by an order in council at the end of 2000. It was removed by an order in council in August 2005 and brought under a schedule to the Privacy Act at the same time.

Now, as we understand it, Bill C-2 is only proposing to formalize this in law for the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation. We understand—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

What I've just told you isn't correct. Is that what you're telling me?

[Danièle Chatelois]

I don't want to appear—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I don't mind. I'm wrong a lot of times, so don't mind telling me I'm wrong.

[Danièle Chatelois]

I want to tell you about a verification at council that I did with different versions of that bill. From what we understand, the version that went to first reading had those organizations in there. Upon reading the version that went to the Senate, we didn't see them anymore.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Okay.

I have a question with respect to the estimates. We went through the commissioner's estimates last week, or recently, and we heard that they're spending $1 million on consultants in six months. Does the Office of the Privacy Commissioner have sufficient resources to handle what it's supposed to do?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Insofar as this—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

No, Mr. Chairman, leave me alone on this.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

If I'm going to get into trouble, I don't need you to help me.

[Michael Binder]

As a good bureaucrat will tell you, there's never enough money.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I assumed you would give me that answer, but we're spending a lot of money on consultants, so I assume from that.... I don't know what I should assume from that.

[Michael Binder]

You will have to ask her. We're not in a position to—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Yes, okay.

The Office of the Privacy Commissioner is making a number of investigations and audits. Should the Office of the Privacy Commissioner be quasi-judicial?

[Michael Binder]

Maybe I don't understand the terminology. I thought it was quasi-judicial now. They have some legal powers or authorities—maybe in certain minds not enough.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Do they have adequate authority?

[Michael Binder]

You're going to hear some people say yes and some people say no.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

What do you think?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Michael Binder]

I would have to ask my minister about this.