Evidence of meeting #19 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was personal.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jennifer Stoddart  Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Heather Black  Assistant Commissioner (PIPEDA), Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel

Good afternoon, colleagues.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, April 25, 2006, and section 29 of the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, we're conducting a statutory review of part 1 of that act.

Today our witnesses, from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, are Ms. Jennifer Stoddart, Privacy Commissioner of Canada; Heather Black, assistant commissioner, PIPEDA; and Melanie Millar-Chapman, strategic research and policy analyst.

Welcome to you.

We understand, Commissioner, that you have an opening statement and then we'll go into the usual questioning. Is that correct?

3:30 p.m.

Jennifer Stoddart Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

If it's convenient for you, Mr. Chairman, I have a fairly short opening statement and then we'll have a good time for questions.

Ladies and gentlemen members, I am very pleased to be here today to assist you with your review of the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, or PIPEDA, as it is commonly called.

Our privacy is fundamentally important to all of us—as consumers, as citizens, as students, as employees—in every aspect of our day-to-day lives. PIPEDA, along with the Privacy Act that applies to federal departments and agencies, provides the foundation for privacy protection in Canada.

I would like to take a moment to explain why PIPEDA is more important than ever. When we first started talking about this law in 1998, the Information Highway was a catchphrase; now it is a reality. Transborder flows of personal information were a trickle. Now they are a flood. New and emerging technologies such as location tracking devices and radio frequency identification threaten privacy in ways that were unimaginable a decade ago.

We want to help you in this critically important task of ensuring that PIPEDA remains capable of dealing with the many privacy challenges we face in the 21st century.

In preparation for the review we issued a consultation paper setting out twelve issues that we identified as worthy of attention. We received over 60 submissions from a variety of organizations and individuals. A summary of the submissions along with a discussion of the issues we identified are included in the submission we have tabled with the Committee. I think it is fair to say that there is general agreement about the issues the Committee might want to consider, but unfortunately there is no consensus about the best way to address all of these issues.

I have a very clear and positive message that I want to leave with you today. We believe that PIPEDA is generally working well. PIPEDA strikes a careful balance between two goals: the right of individuals to keep their personal information private, and the need of organizations to collect, use, and disclose personal information for purposes that a reasonable person would consider appropriate.

I've chosen the following issues to bring to your attention today because they have the potential to affect the privacy interests of a large number of Canadians.

First of all, it is important that privacy law be administered in a stable context. PIPEDA is based on an ombudsman model. As Privacy Commissioner, I have the power to investigate complaints, to conduct audits, to make findings, to issue non-binding recommendations, and to initiate court actions. We will not be asking for enhanced enforcement powers. We are not convinced that the time is right to make such a fundamental change to the enforcement mechanisms for several reasons, both practical and administrative.

Secondly, some of the most difficult complaints we have received have involved employee information. PIPEDA is based on consent, which is a challenging concept in a workplace environment where there is unequal bargaining power. One of the issues that you may wish to consider is whether there are more appropriate ways to deal with employee information without sacrificing the privacy rights of workers. Our submission offers some suggestions about dealing with employee information.

With respect to the issue of work product, PIPEDA does not use the term. We've addressed this issue by adopting a case-by-case approach to assessing whether or not the information in question is about the individual. If the answer is yes, then the information is protected by the act. We recognize that an individual in his or her capacity as an employee or as a professional may generate information that is not about the individual. We would caution you that removing all such information from the act could result in intrusive workplace monitoring and other abuses.

Since the Act was passed, concerns about protecting transborder flows of personal information have taken on a new urgency. As a result of globalization, the emergence of new “follow the sun” business models and the explosion of offshore processing, the amount of personal information flowing across borders has increased dramatically. At the same time, governments are increasingly interested in obtaining access to this information for national security purposes. PIPEDA does not contain any specific provisions with respect to transborder information flows. We believe that by providing guidance, requiring organizations to be open about their processing practices and holding them responsible for personal information when it crosses borders we can address the challenges of transborder information flows.

We also need to ensure that we can deal with complaints that involve other jurisdictions. We live in a world of increasingly virtual borders in which privacy issues do not always respect national boundaries. I would ask you, ladies and gentlemen, to consider a specific provision to make it clearer we have the authority to share information with our international counterparts while cooperating on investigations of mutual interest.

The act requires organizations to protect personal information from unauthorized access or disclosures. The Act does not require organizations to take any specific actions in the event of an unauthorized disclosure. More than half of the U.S. states have passed laws requiring organizations to notify their customers or clients when their personal information has been compromised. Policy makers in the European Union are looking at similar requirements. Breach notification laws may force organizations to take security more seriously. They may provide individuals with an early warning system to make them better prepared to deal with the risk of identity theft and other harms that might result from a privacy breach. We look forward to discussing with the Committee whether it is possible to fit a notification requirement into the PIPEDA framework.

Before concluding, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to raise one very specific and I think pressing matter that relates to a recent Federal Court of Appeal decision. This case deals with solicitor-client privilege and our ability to obtain access to documents in the course of our investigations. This recent decision in the Blood Tribe case leaves a gaping hole in our ability to conduct meaningful investigations. It effectively allows organizations to shield information from our investigators with no independent verification that the documents in question do in fact contain information subject to solicitor-client privilege. Although we are seeking leave to appeal, we believe this ambiguity in the legislation needs to be clarified with an amendment to PIPEDA as soon as possible.

To repeat, we believe that PIPEDA is working reasonably well. Overall, we think that there is a high level of compliance and that the business community is committed to the protection of our personal information. Can the act be improved? Yes. Based on our experience in applying the law since 2001, and with benefit of the second generation private sector laws that have been passed in some provinces, we have identified in our submission gaps in the act and provisions that would benefit from greater clarity. We think there are ways in which the act can be made more practical and more predictable, so after you've had the benefit of hearing from, doubtless, numerous other witnesses you may call to appear before you, we would ask to come back at the end of your hearings, Mr. Chairman, in order to give our final view on the various matters being put before you.

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

Now we will commence our first round of questioning. We have a full docket of questioners, who have seven minutes for this round. We'll start with Mr. Peterson.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, witnesses.

What types of amendments would you envisage to get around the Blood Tribe decision?

3:40 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

They would be very specifically worded amendments that make it clear—and I think the model is in the Privacy Act—that our investigative powers are not blocked by solicitor–client privilege. This is in the Privacy Act. It was not put in PIPEDA, we understand, because it was thought that our investigative powers were clear enough. There seems to be some ambiguity, so we would look to the Privacy Act as a model.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

Do you envisage any objections to that type of amendment?

3:40 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

There might be, yes.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

You've floated this suggestion before. Have you received any objections?

3:40 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

No, we have not floated it before, Mr. Chairman. We only received this decision about three weeks ago, I believe. This is a decision of the Court of Appeal. The first level of the Federal Court was in agreement with us that our investigative powers included looking at documents for which it was alleged there was solicitor–client privilege. The Federal Court of Appeal disagreed with that, so this is now the first time we have asked for an amendment.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

Can you give us some examples of how that's going to hamper you specifically in the work that you're doing?

3:40 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

We think there is a very real possibility that respondent organizations could take a very expansive view of what solicitor–client privilege is, and thus in fact shelter documents containing personal information that would be appropriate to our investigation behind the use of this privilege.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

Can you give us a sense of how many complaints your office has received since PIPEDA?

3:40 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

Since the beginning of PIPEDA, I believe there have been about 1,400 complaints overall, Mr. Chairman.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

Over three and a half years?

3:40 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

No, over the five years that it has now been in force. Let me just find those statistics for you.

We have received over 56,000 written and telephone inquiries.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

You can give us this information later.

3:40 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

It's about 1,400.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

Is there one type of complaint that dominates?

3:40 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

The complaints are mainly about use and disclosure, collection, and access. Those three types dominate from year to year. First of all, use and disclosure ones make up 38%; collections are at 23%; and ones on access to one's own file, one's own personal information, make up 18%.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

How many times have you had to go to court?

3:45 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

I believe we've been involved in some fifty cases since the inception of the first stage of PIPEDA. We're currently at the Federal Court in twelve active cases.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

How long do each of these cases usually take before there is final determination?

3:45 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

That's hard for me to answer. I haven't really measured it.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

I imagine it would be substantial.

3:45 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

Before the Federal Court, you mean?