Evidence of meeting #33 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pipeda.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
One of the things you pointed out was that private sector companies aren't bound by the same limits or rules as an agency.
What do you mean by that in terms of a private sector company not having the same limits, regarding reasonable grounds versus suspicion?
10:20 a.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
These are all new areas of law. Basically one of the issues of concern is that people wouldn't have what's called due process.
10:20 a.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
With time, it developed in our legal system that the more power you have, the more due process you have to give somebody. This means that people working for companies can see somebody suspicious, and on their own go and get information on them to pass to the police, without telling the person that they're getting this information, whereas law enforcement couldn't do so.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
This is what worries me. Am I reading correctly that not only could the private organization divulge the information they currently hold, but they could be dispatched to collect brand new information on behalf of the enforcement agency, and then share that with them, again without consent or knowledge?
10:20 a.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Exactly. They can take the initiative.
10:20 a.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes. We have many individual security forces across the country that now have these extraordinary powers.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Mr. Martin, the commissioner said they could take the initiative, not be dispatched by someone else.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
10:20 a.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I'd have to reread the act.
10:20 a.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I would think upon request they would....
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
a) an organization can now collect personal information without knowledge or consent for the purpose of making a disclosure to a government agency that has requested the information...and
b) an organization may now collect information on its own initiative to make a subsequent disclosure to a government agency for the aforementioned purposes.
That's the legal interpretation we have of this clause. We should all be concerned.
I think we're muddying the waters, if I may say, by using the example of the pedophile abusing a child in real time and the possibility of terrorist, national security issues. That's what I'm focusing on. I told the RCMP that I could relate to and sympathize with that example--drop all the rules out the window to save that kid. In the case of fishing around a person's private affairs on the suspicion that they may be remotely connected to some possible terrorist initiative, that's what worries me.
10:20 a.m.
An hon. member
[Inaudible--Editor]
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I'm going to run out of time very quickly.
I'd like to make it abundantly clear that, if I'm reading your recommendations correctly, you believe there are 34 states that currently have some duty to notify and you strongly encourage the committee to recommend amending the act to include a breach notification provision. Is that your testimony today?
10:25 a.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
That is correct.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Time's up.
Mr. Tonks, followed by Mr. Wallace. That's the end of round two.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Alan Tonks Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I don't sit on this committee, Ms. Stoddart, so you'll have to allow me some flexibility with respect to my understanding of PIPEDA.
I have gained enough information with respect to the national security issue and the Public Safety Act to leave that to the others to pursue, although I did note that one of the issues you are concerned about was that businesses not be the collectors of information for the state. I understand there's a dilemma in terms of public safety. I'll leave that line of questioning to the committee.
There was one issue that had been brought up that did concern me, and I hope it's not irrelevant to the proceedings. It's on your role with respect to Elections Canada and the issue that was raised with respect to information involving birth certificates, date of birth, and, I suppose, addresses, places of residence. Do you initiate your response on a court order with respect to an investigation that has gone on after an alleged electoral abuse has taken place?
10:25 a.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Honourable member, we're not involved in the administration of the electoral process. That's exclusively the responsibility of the Chief Electoral Officer.