Evidence of meeting #44 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
So from the $1.848 million, we take off.... How much was that last figure?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
It was $60,000.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
We take off $15,000 for the external advisory committee and we take off net $400,000 for the conference. Am I reading that correctly?
Director General, Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services Branch, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
You have to take off the full amount of the conference as it relates to the presentation here.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Okay, but net, it's not going to cost your office $900,000; it is going to cost $400,000.
Director General, Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services Branch, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes, that's right.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
That leaves us then with what? Is it about $1.4 million in the first box, approximately? Is that right? Am I correct, roughly speaking?
Director General, Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services Branch, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I think it is part of the note that's there. I think $871,000 is the amount you're looking for.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Yes, so what I'm trying to figure out is how much is left in the top box after the privacy conference, the external advisory committee, and the strategic alliances, and I am talking net figures.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
It is $871,000.
Director General, Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services Branch, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
That's right.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
It covers eight.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
There are eight. So none of the eight that are referenced in the top box has anything to do with the external advisory committee, the strategic alliances, or the privacy conference. Is that correct?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
That's right. These are permanent employees.
Liberal
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Madam Commissioner, for appearing before us again. Thank you for helping us prepare the last report.
I get the impression, at least, that much as in private business, when something new is implemented, it takes a little while to get things just right. But I have a very secure feeling that you have things well under control. There are some concerns about some of the budgetary items, but it looks to me like things are settling in. You have your people in place.
There is only one thing I see that I question, and the reason I raise it is because when we had before us the Office of the Information Commissioner, they testified that their office had partnered with the University of Alberta to create a program for a degree that would fill some of their functions.
I think I was hearing that you're having some trouble, and I would just assume that you're looking for a specially trained person. So I guess my question is whether you have moved along the same way. Have you initiated something like that, or are you looking to investigate that and partner, possibly, with a university to create a course?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes, absolutely. I don't know if the director of investigations would like to add anything, but the head of that University of Alberta initiative is in fact a member of our advisory committee, about which the chairman was just posing questions. So we are very familiar with that initiative.
One of the themes of the last few years for us has been the professionalization of privacy people and how there should be more standards and recognition of the importance of this kind of work. Often it's the same person who does privacy and access to information.
We have worked with organizations within Canada, and there is an international one that is very present in the field. We are interested in this not only because of the principle of professionalizing privacy work, but also because this provides organizations and government departments with a new group of people who are trained to standards.
Director General, Investigation and Inquiries Branch, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Concerning this program you're talking about, not only are the investigators encouraged to take it, but I know that presently we are working with the university to see if we can somehow have modules specific to our types of investigations so our investigators can take those courses. There is some dialogue right now with the university.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
I was thinking, Mr. Watson, more in terms of university graduates. Are you steering young grads into a course, or will there be a course offered by the university that would result in your office...? In private business, when a new opportunity arises you train your people in a certain way and always make sure you have people behind you who can fill the gap. I'm looking more in terms of the people who would fill the gap.
Are we approaching universities and saying that the Office of the Privacy Commissioner is going to need this type of individual who needs this type of training, and can we offer some courses?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes, I have certainly done that with law faculties. My colleague, who is head of audit and a chartered accountant, has been doing that in his own professional world, saying that this is a field that needs more and more recruits and we're interested in getting their latest recruits. We have had some people come through that avenue.
We hire a lot of students, usually on a part-time basis. Clearly we're trying to encourage young people to move in that direction and we are happy to hire them. It's difficult, for the reasons I've said here, to hire them very quickly through the public service as full-time employees.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
As we said, we've gone through the report and we're very satisfied. I think we all agreed with the report. There was one area we had concerns with, but for the most part it looks like....
Would you say you feel very comfortable, when you look at the future, that this is going the right way and you have the people in place, or are there areas of concern where you might have problems? I guess I'm looking at nipping it in the bud if there's something out of whack.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
“Comfortable” sounds like kind of a luxury that as Privacy Commissioner of Canada I don't think is a concept that fits the state of mind. No, I don't feel comfortable.
Technology is constantly changing. We have a huge challenge to try to take a law and the civil service structures and the state they're in and be flexible, proactive, and so on, to meet the challenge. It's not comfortable.
I think we have to be extremely vigilant. And we are stretched, as are commissioners throughout the world, to try to meet these challenges. If you look at what's happening in terms of Internet privacy--and we'll come back to that on Tuesday--the world is just moving so fast.
That being said, I don't think I am hampered in my budget in trying to meet those challenges. The challenges have to do with knowledge acquisition; forming a plan to deal with new challenges; having the team and the members we need on the team; and reacting with speed, which is always a challenge in a bureaucracy--and I don't say that ironically. I think in any big organization within or outside the government, reacting quickly is always a problem. We see a fragmented world in which the actors now can be individuals with computers and websites.
Liberal