Information & Ethics Committee on May 3rd, 2007

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

That's what I was wondering, because I remember the days when roughly $5 million was the total budget of the Privacy Commissioner, but I was aware that PIPEDA brought a huge new volume of work.

Do you not anticipate another volume of work, so then maybe when the time comes you'll look for an increased budget? I really sense that you may be looking at an increased volume of activity with the public awareness and interest stemming from the PIPEDA review we just did, as the duty-to-notify issue becomes a more top-of-mind issue and as the identity theft work of this committee generates some national interest. What kind of preparations are you making in anticipation of what could be a dramatic increase in volume?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

You're quite right, honourable member, certainly with respect to the duty to notify. From just what I've been able to read in your recommendations, for example, the functions this committee has recommended would lead to a tremendous increase in the workload. One of the things we'll certainly do is to sit down with your recommendations and cost them out. I think this committee also recommended more attention to education. We've been trying to do that, but certainly there's room for more.

Given the difficulty of hiring people and given the fact that you have to have the appropriate structures there in order to prepare the way for increased activities, which is a fairly incremental process, I'd rather not ask for money ahead of time when it's not clear I absolutely need it, because it's public money. I agree with you, but I'm waiting to see that I can use it appropriately, and I will come back at that time.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

The development of a do-not-fly list interests me. I myself was on the old do-not-fly list of the Americans, and I found it terribly frustrating to try to get off the do-not-fly list because I was dealing with an American office, an American bureaucracy, etc. What consultation was there with your office in the development of the made in Canada do-not-fly list?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

There was a certain amount of consultation, Mr. Chairman. On our website last summer we posted the 24 questions we asked the Minister of Transport as he developed the do-not-fly list. The minister has responded to those questions--I think after a year.

The Minister of Transport also did—

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Excuse me, did you say “after a year”? Did it take a year to get the response?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

I understand it took a year for them to respond to those questions.

They also did what's called a PIA, a privacy impact assessment, which we have reviewed and sent back to them. We keep in touch with them on a regular basis, and we met with them in February 2007. I understand they have worked on and instituted a redress mechanism: if one finds oneself on the do-not-fly list, there is a process for challenging that.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I see. That's very interesting.

Will your office be involved on a case-by-case basis? If a person says their right to privacy has been compromised by being on that list, is that something to bring to the Privacy Commissioner, or would that be within the new avenue of recourse contemplated for that list?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Well, I would think they could make a complaint about that, so we may very well be investigating such cases.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I'm just thinking of the increased volume for your office in the context of your budget.

[Jennifer Stoddart]

It could be, yes, but again, we have to find these investigators, so we're going to concentrate on that. We may need more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Thank you, Mr. Martin.

Considering you didn't have too many questions, you still used up your seven minutes.

Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Madam Commissioner, first of all, I want to congratulate you on the work you do and the advice you give this committee. I personally am quite pleased with the work you do.

As you know, we went through a study of PIPEDA, and I'm pleased you like our results.

One of the issues that came out was the topic of Canadians finding out that there even is a Privacy Commissioner and the legal rights they have. Of course, much of your time is spent trying to educate the public, and a large part of your budget deals with that. I'd like you to talk about that.

And I applaud that. I think that's part of what your role is, educating the public and organizations as to what their rights are.

But on the other hand, there comes a limit to what the taxpayer can afford. How far should the taxpayer go in educating the public? I know you have a web page and you send out literature and you do all those sorts of things, but somewhere along the line there's a limit. Could you comment on that issue?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

You're right. There is a limit to how much taxpayers can pay for government services generally. That's why we're not asking for money we're not sure we can spend, why we want to make sure we're really going to use it wisely before we ask you for it. It's also why, particularly in the realm of communications, which this committee has stressed to me several times as being important, we're trying to focus on activities that have an exponential effect, going to industry associations in order that they may then carry through with the education.

You've mentioned the website. We continue to think our website is crucial, and we are now up to I think a 30% increase in visits to our website over last year. We continue to encourage links with the written and electronic media because for the taxpayer those are relatively inexpensive and, again, are widely followed. We are increasingly going to electronic means over the traditional paper means. All those are very cost-effective ways of communicating.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You've explained how there was a substantial increase in your budget last year. I think it went from $6 million to $16 million; mind you, some famous person in this country once said, “What's a million?” Part of that increase was from adding on to the public part of your functions, and that's why I understand that increase.

This year the increase over last year is about $3.5 million, if I'm reading this correctly. Assuming I have interpreted those figures correctly, what was the reaction to that increase from the advisory panel you appeared before?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Do you mean the initial increase or the phased-in one, honourable member, or both?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Well, I don't know. Maybe I'm not reading it correctly, and I'll grant you that.

I am looking at the estimates booklet, and on page 23 the amount goes from $16,298,000 to $19,711,000. That's where I came up with the $3.5 million. Have I interpreted that correctly?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Yes, those are the figures.

If I may, though, honourable member, I'll explain that the year before, because of the unusual type of PIPEDA funding, we didn't go from $6 million to $16 million; we went from about $11 million or $12 million to $16 million. It is just the way the money was counted as part of our permanent base funding, so it wasn't really such a huge jump as it seems; it's just the accounting.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Oh, my question is dealing with the $3.5 million. I am looking at page 23. As you know, this committee spent quite a bit of time trying to encourage the government to have another step before you got to Treasury Board, namely this advisory panel--which is coming to an end, and I have a subsequent question on it--and my question is this: did they react to that $3.5 million? What was their reaction--or was there one?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

This kind of staged budget, where there's an escalator effect and it goes up and then back down, was recommended by the committee in discussion with us and Treasury Board to give us extra funds in the short term in order to attack the backlog of complaints. Then it goes back down to a permanent level of roughly $18,900,000.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

It's still a big increase. However, you have talked about trends. You've tried to give some explanation of that, and I understand that, which leads to the next question.

So the advisory panel was not critical of this at all?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

No. We presented our business case and then developed this in conjunction with the advisory panel and Treasury Board because of the difficulty for a small organization to handle such a big jump in its budget and its personnel all at once. Our budget increase was phased in, the budget will go back to a new plateau, and then it will be reviewed at that time. That was the idea.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I don't understand. You were up to $16.298 million last year and then it jumped. I understand what you've just said, but we've jumped in fact to $19.711 million.

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Could I ask, Mr. Chairman, if the director of finance can perhaps give the details the honourable member is looking for?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Yes, but before you do that, will you look at this chart you provided us with? It shows that the planned spending is going from $16.298 million to $18.346 million, and then in addition you have what you expect to spend on the Federal Accountability Act; that brings it up to $19.711 million. That's more or less the situation, is it not?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Yes.